Legislature(1999 - 2000)

01/19/2000 10:45 AM Senate MER

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
txt
JOINT SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON MERGERS                                                                                              
                        January 19, 2000                                                                                        
                           10:45 A.M.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Senator Rick Halford, Chairman                                                                                                  
Representative Joe Green, Vice-Chairman                                                                                         
Senator Drue Pearce                                                                                                             
Senator Johnny Ellis                                                                                                            
Representative Beth Kerttula                                                                                                    
Representative Brian Porter                                                                                                     
Representative Jim Whitaker                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
All members present                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
OTHER MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Senator Mike Miller                                                                                                             
Senator Randy Phillips                                                                                                          
Senator Gary Wilken                                                                                                             
Senator Loren Leman                                                                                                             
Senator Robin Taylor                                                                                                            
Senator Jerry Ward                                                                                                              
Senator Lyda Green                                                                                                              
Senator Pete Kelly                                                                                                              
Senator Kim Elton                                                                                                               
Representative Lisa Murkowski                                                                                                   
Representative Harold Smalley                                                                                                   
Representative Bill Hudson                                                                                                      
Representative Eldon Mulder                                                                                                     
Representative Scott Ogan                                                                                                       
Representative Sharon Cissna                                                                                                    
Representative Eric Croft                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Discussion of BP Amoco ARCO merger by BP Amoco                                                                                  
Mr. Richard C. Campbell, President, BP Exploration (Alaska), Inc.                                                               
Mr. Tim Holt, Senior Vice-President, BP Exploration(Alaska), Inc.                                                               
  and Business Unit Leader for the Central North Sea(Prudhoe Bay)                                                               
Mr. Bill Noble, Senior attorney, BP Amoco                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Presentation by the Administration                                                                                              
Mr. Jack Griffin, Assistant Attorney General                                                                                    
Mr. David Boies, Boies and Schiller(teleconference)                                                                             
Mr. Bob Loeffler, Morrison and Foerster                                                                                         
Mr. Bradley Lui, Morrison and Foerster                                                                                          
Dr. Rick Warren-Boulton, MiCRA                                                                                                  
Mr. Barry Pulliam, Econ One                                                                                                     
Dr. Jeffrey Leitzinger, Econ One                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Closing comments by Committee Consultants                                                                                       
Mr. Fred Boness, Attorney from Preston Gates and Ellis                                                                          
Mr. William MacLeod, Attorney, Collier, Shannon, Rill and Scott                                                                 
Dr. David Scheffman, Economist and Professor, Owen Graduate                                                                     
    School of Management, Vanderbuilt University                                                                                
Mr. George Schink, Economist and Independent Consultant                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
PREVIOUS ACTION                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
See the Joint Special Committee on Mergers minutes dated 6/11/99,                                                               
7/28/99, 9/24/99, 9/25/99, 11/18/99, 11/19/99, 1/12/00, and                                                                     
1/18/00.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 00-04, SIDE A                                                                                                              
Number 001                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALFORD called the Joint Committee on Mergers meeting to                                                               
order at 10:45 a.m. and said the first presentation would be from                                                               
Mr. Richard Campbell, President of BP Alaska.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. RICHARD CAMPBELL, President, BP Alaska, introduced Mr. Tim                                                                  
Holt, Senior Vice President, BP Exploration Alaska and Business                                                                 
Unit Leader for the Central North Sea, and Mr. Bill Noble who was                                                               
the lawyer involved in writing and negotiating the Charter.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. CAMPBELL said the presentation would be simple and devoted to                                                               
what they believe to be the most important elements of the merger                                                               
and its benefits to the State of Alaska. "The main points are that                                                              
the merger will make Alaska more competitive globally and more                                                                  
attractive for industry investment by lowering the cost base.  This                                                             
new and continued advancement will enhance production and                                                                       
significantly extend the productive life of the North Slope.  This                                                              
enhanced production will result in more activity and State revenues                                                             
over a longer time than without the merger.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Finally, we believe the central concerns expressed in Alaska about                                                              
the companies have been fairly advanced by the Charter Agreement."                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR. CAMPBELL said the advantage of the merger is no more                                                                        
complicated than that.  It will lead to lower costs, more                                                                       
advancement, more production, more work, more jobs, and more State                                                              
revenue for a longer period of time.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Number 80                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. HOLT said his presentation starts on page 3 of the booklet they                                                             
handed to the Committee.  The first point is that oil prices were                                                               
at an all time low last year for the North Slope and Alaska was at                                                              
risk of losing its position as an attractive place for investing                                                                
exploration production capital.  We risk becoming a subpar global                                                               
prospect.  The price of oil has gone from $9 to $25 today.  Their                                                               
long-term view is that oil prices will be in the mid-teens range                                                                
and that is what they base their investment decisions.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
The global oil industry is quite competitive and volatile and one                                                               
of the reasons for the big swing in prices is that there's excess                                                               
supply of crude in the world.  The OPEC countries have an estimated                                                             
6 million barrel spare capacity today.  Over the past 12 months,                                                                
OPEC has demonstrated a very high level of control which has                                                                    
benefited oil prices.  This is a very fragile situation as their                                                                
history is not of maintaining that discipline for extended periods                                                              
of time.  At this time last year, Alaska did not look very good on                                                              
the global scale in terms of competition for capital.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. HOLT said his second point would be how Alaska stacks up as an                                                              
oil province and thirdly, he would talk about the Charter and how                                                               
it represents a fair result and does a good job of striking a                                                                   
balance between global competition considerations and Alaska                                                                    
specific considerations.  A fourth point is about the trend across                                                              
the industry for consolidation and that Alaska is not isolated from                                                             
what goes on in the rest of the world.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Number 150                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
The market for exploration development capital is highly                                                                        
competitive and global with no one or two players that dominate the                                                             
market. ANS crude is a relatively small part of the global crude                                                                
market with production of 1.1 million barrels of oil per day.                                                                   
Total world-wide production is 70 million barrels per day.  So                                                                  
Alaska is about 1 - 1.5% of overall crude.  Looking at the combined                                                             
proposed combination of BP Amoco and ARCO in terms of their                                                                     
relative share of the world oil market as measured in terms of                                                                  
crude oil reserves (a better indicator of longevity), the combined                                                              
company would have just over one percent of global crude reserves.                                                              
This "big" company would be a very small player in the overall                                                                  
market.  There is a wave of consolidation going on as seen with the                                                             
Exxon Mobil merger.  Some of the countries with nationalized oil                                                                
are starting to compete outside of their own countries.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. HOLT referred to a chart showing capital investments in the oil                                                             
industry in 1997 with over $60 billion invested all over the world.                                                             
One of the more recent trends is that last year Western Europe,                                                                 
U.S., and Canada has taken the lion's share of the investment                                                                   
capital in the exploration production field.  That capital is now                                                               
starting to shift toward other parts of the world.  The reason is                                                               
prospectivity or the potential to find big accumulations.  This is                                                              
best demonstrated by the discoveries made in West Africa.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
The whole industry in Alaska in 1997 invested around $1.5 billion                                                               
of capital, a relatively small slice of the overall exploration                                                                 
production capital.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Number 208                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
On page seven the key point is that capital moves quickly following                                                             
the areas or prospectivity like in the deep water Gulf of Mexico.                                                               
Alaska competes in this global market.  The industry competes for                                                               
exploration funds on a world-wide basis.  In Alaska over the last                                                               
10 years, two major players have left the State - Shell and Texaco.                                                             
This was partially because of their perception of better                                                                        
opportunities in other parts of the world.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
The definition of prospectivity that he is using is a view of the                                                               
potential for finding large oil fields and many oil fields.  It's                                                               
one of the key factors that determines where companies put their                                                                
investment capital.  There are four key factors: the first is what                                                              
are the costs of finding, developing, producing, and transporting                                                               
the oil to market for a particular area.  Alaska has a relatively                                                               
high cost base.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
The second factor is the size and number of potential fields. The                                                               
third factor is the level of total government take - local, state,                                                              
and federal.  The fourth factor is the stability of the host                                                                    
government.  The U.S. and Western Europe had a major advantage in                                                               
stability in the last few years; but this is changing as other                                                                  
countries recognize the need to change their behavior.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR. HOLT explained that of these four factors, the only one they                                                                
can control is first one.  They can bring their technology and                                                                  
human resources to try to influence the cost.  They can't do much                                                               
about the other three factors.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Number 241                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
He explained the graph comparing Alaska with some global                                                                        
competitors for cost per barrel prepared by the Cambridge Energy                                                                
Research Associates (CERA).  It's easy to see that Alaska is about                                                              
double the cost on average of the other areas.  Alaska does have                                                                
significant undiscovered potential, but it's not significantly more                                                             
than several other countries.  Since this is a relatively high cost                                                             
region, they have to work at being as efficient as they can be.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Not only is Alaska high cost compared to the rest of the world, it                                                              
is actually moving in the wrong direction.  The fundamental reason                                                              
for this is declining production in the Prudhoe Bay field.                                                                      
Production today is less than half of what it was 10 years ago.  As                                                             
oil production declines, the associated water and gas production                                                                
has continued to increased more than two-fold.  This is significant                                                             
because it costs money to lift this associated gas and water and to                                                             
separate and treat it and then reinject it.  The costs are actually                                                             
increasing on a per barrel basis.  Again, he said, this is the only                                                             
cost the oil industry can control and in Alaska it is going in the                                                              
wrong direction.  They have to look for opportunities to change                                                                 
that picture.  This merger is such an opportunity.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
In reference to page 11, MR. HOLT said that Prudhoe Bay has been                                                                
declining since 1989 and the North Slope overall has declined for                                                               
the last 10 years.  The existing owner companies and operators on                                                               
the North Slope have been working very hard to control costs.                                                                   
Steps they have taken so far are sharing of service between                                                                     
companies such as the aviation service taking workers back and                                                                  
forth from Anchorage and Fairbanks to the North Slope.  They have                                                               
also reduced the size of the work force.  They have not been                                                                    
letting cost saving opportunities go by.  It's been one of their                                                                
fundamental focuses for this last 10 years. Future opportunities                                                                
for cost savings are limited.  Mergers like this are step-change                                                                
opportunities that provide a unique opportunity to take a major                                                                 
chunk out of costs that you can't get out of separate companies                                                                 
doing as much as they possibly can.  There are legal constraints as                                                             
to how far separate companies can go in terms of combining                                                                      
operations.  Other things actually prevent companies from combining                                                             
operations.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Despite all their efforts at cost cutting, they have been heading                                                               
the wrong way on a per barrel basis, MR. HOLT reiterated.  The                                                                  
merger is a unique opportunity and would improve the attractiveness                                                             
of Alaska on a world-wide basis.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Number 319                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
When the merger was originally proposed, the figure of $1 billion                                                               
a year on a global basis was communicated; $200 million would come                                                              
from Alaska.  That translates into approximately $.80 per barrel.                                                               
This has been changed and some of the savings have gone away. One                                                               
hundred and forty million has been preserved in the Charter and                                                                 
this is still a significant step-change reduction in cost.  He knew                                                             
of no other opportunities to make that sort of reduction in cost or                                                             
they would have already taken them.  The $140 million is                                                                        
significant and would have an influence on the per barrel earnings.                                                             
If you're in a commodity business, if you can reduce the cost                                                                   
structure, you improve the economic attractiveness of incremental                                                               
opportunities.  You draw additional investment from all players.                                                                
If you draw an incremental investment, you increase production.  If                                                             
you increase production, you increase revenues-to the players and                                                               
to the State.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
"Increased production actually is one of the most powerful forces                                                               
we have to control the unit cost per barrel for working on the                                                                  
North Slope.  There is a very high fixed cost base and the more                                                                 
production we can get through the existing system, that includes                                                                
the field processing facilities, pipeline facilities, tankers, the                                                              
more efficient the whole system is."                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR. HOLT reminded them that the pipeline has handled 2 million                                                                  
barrels per day in the past, about double of what they are handling                                                             
today.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Page 14 presents a picture of where the revenue goes in a $15-                                                                  
world which is the price CERA used to for this analysis.  MR. HOLT                                                              
reiterated that the investments the oil industry makes are long-                                                                
lived.  That is they invest money today and you generate a revenue                                                              
stream that occurs over many years.  You don't base that on today's                                                             
prices; you base it on the long-term view.  BP's view of long-term                                                              
prices is this sort of range.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Number 355                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked if on this chart royalty was on the cost                                                                 
side or the tax side.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. HOLT answered that it was on the tax side.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked, "So, the combined total to the State is                                                                 
$3.33 in all taxes and royalties?"  Mr. Holt indicated yes and                                                                  
explained that the $9.70 on the cost side represented development,                                                              
production, and transporting the oil.  The total government take is                                                             
about $4, about 27 percent of the total pie; $9.70 is about 64                                                                  
percent of the total pie.  Earnings left for industry to reinvest                                                               
represents the $1.28 which is just under 10 percent of the total                                                                
revenues.  He did not want to argue about how big the slices of the                                                             
pie are exactly.  The key point is that costs are by far the                                                                    
biggest slice and earnings is the smallest.  If they can reduce the                                                             
$9.70 by taking a chunk out of costs, part of that will flow into                                                               
increased earnings.  This will be reinvested in opportunities in                                                                
Alaska.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
In addition to enabling a step-change in costs (page 15), there are                                                             
some intangibles the merger would bring.  One is improving the                                                                  
relative alignment of ownership interest in and around the Prudhoe                                                              
Bay field.  The Prudhoe Bay field is rather unique in that there                                                                
are two sets of ownership interests - gas and oil.  BP currently                                                                
owns somewhere around 51 percent of the oil rim and somewhere                                                                   
around 14 percent of the gas cap.  ARCO owns somewhere around 21                                                                
percent of the oil rim and 42 percent of the gas cap.  These                                                                    
differences in ownership interest actually increase the transaction                                                             
cost, because it takes human resources every time a project comes                                                               
up in the Prudhoe Bay field.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
They must look at the implications from both the oil rim and gas                                                                
cap perspectives.  In a traditional field, there is only one set of                                                             
interests.  It's a simple investment decision.  They have to                                                                    
negotiate cost sharing and how to split the costs because the                                                                   
project will benefit both the gas cap and the oil rim.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
The merger would simplify the decision making of the BP Amoco/ARCO                                                              
interests.  This has not been quantified monetarily, but it is an                                                               
intangible benefit.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
He reiterated that in the commodity business, the most important                                                                
thing you can do is try to control and reduce the cost base.  It's                                                              
the critical first step in trying to trigger a cycle that leads to                                                              
additional production.  The cycle is simply to reduce the costs,                                                                
improve the economic attractiveness of new opportunities, draw in                                                               
more capital from all companies, increasing production ultimately,                                                              
and tax and royalty revenue for the State would increase.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Number 419                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. HOLT said the Charter represents a reasonable balance between                                                               
considerations of local competition and some Alaska-specific                                                                    
concerns.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Last year ARCO's management made the decision to sell their company                                                             
and they chose BP from several options.  The merger would give them                                                             
the unique opportunity to reduce the cost base and improve                                                                      
alignment on the North Slope; therefore, benefits would flow to the                                                             
entire industry and the State of Alaska.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
The events of the merger give the State unprecedented opportunity                                                               
to actually reengineer the structure of the industry in Alaska.                                                                 
This would not normally happen under normal business circumstance.                                                              
Through the review process, the Governor and Administration have                                                                
taken advantage of this opportunity and used their judgement to                                                                 
restructure the industry to the benefit of all Alaska.  Some will                                                               
argue that it will worsen it, but he feels that the Governor and                                                                
Administration have done their best to try to improve the dynamic                                                               
of the industry here.  He thought the merger actually put a                                                                     
positive spotlight on Alaska from the industry's standpoint.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. HOLT said the industry has not been as vital as it could have                                                               
been, certainly if you measure it by the number of companies who                                                                
have tried to come in.  It's been heading the other way.  There                                                                 
have been rising unit costs.  The merger allows costs to be reduced                                                             
substantially, it creates new opportunity for new players to come                                                               
in and get "some pretty big chunks of business in one fell swoop."                                                              
                                                                                                                                
The Charter strikes a balance of taking some of the cost savings on                                                             
one hand to improve the basic competitive attractiveness of the                                                                 
State of Alaska by carving up big enough pieces to draw in new                                                                  
players to revitalize they dynamics of the State.  There are lots                                                               
of views as to how to strike this balance, but in concept it's a                                                                
very simple balance.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Number 419                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
The proposed divestiture is presented on page 21.  MR. HOLT                                                                     
emphasized that these are huge pieces of business assets.  These                                                                
are world-scale divestitures in the oil industries.  These do not                                                               
come along very often.  He said that more than 10 companies have                                                                
come through to look.  Although he must keep the names                                                                          
confidential, he said several of them were household names in the                                                               
oil industry-not second tier companies.  Some of them are bigger                                                                
companies than ARCO.  He informed them that these packages are                                                                  
vertically integrated including exploration acreage, material and                                                               
operating interests in major producing fields.  Kuparuk is the                                                                  
second largest oil field in the United States.  The package                                                                     
includes more than half the interest plus operatorship of it.  It                                                               
includes interest in pipelines, both field pipelines and the TAPS                                                               
and tankers.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. HOLT said there is a possibility that the two packages could be                                                             
sold to a single buyer and repeated that some of the interested                                                                 
buyers are very big players.  These packages are not complete                                                                   
divestitures, but there are other pieces like segments in TAPS                                                                  
totaling nine percent interest that will be sold.  There is                                                                     
additional exploration acreage on both on the State side and the                                                                
NPRA (federal).                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. HOLT summarized that this a unique opportunity and they do not                                                              
come along very often to pick up assets of this scale.  In fact, he                                                             
has never seen an opportunity like this come along.  The size of                                                                
the packages are very attractive to buyers who have the financial                                                               
wherewithal to compete.  It will represent a major holding in                                                                   
anyone's portfolio.  One hundred seventy-five thousand barrels per                                                              
day is a huge piece of business in the oil industry.  Very few                                                                  
profit center interests of any company, including BP Amoco, are of                                                              
that scale.  It is bigger than some companies, like UNOCAL.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Another point to recognize is that the successful bidders could be                                                              
someone who already has a presence here in Alaska and sees this as                                                              
a golden opportunity to dramatically increase the size of their                                                                 
presence here and take a bold step forward in terms of growing                                                                  
their business in Alaska.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Number 519                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
The net effect of implementing the Charter will be complete                                                                     
restructuring of the North Slope.  The assets to be divested were                                                               
pretty much selected by the State, as they were very opposed                                                                    
initially to divesting a majority interest and operatorship of the                                                              
Kuparuk and Alpine fields.  They are prime assets and they wanted                                                               
to hang on to them.  The State was insistent and they eventually                                                                
agreed as it would keep the right kind of relationship with the                                                                 
State.  The combined divestiture represents a very expensive                                                                    
restructuring of a very mature oil province.  This does not happen                                                              
normally.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
There are some aspects of the oil industry that are competitive and                                                             
they generally center around competing for access to acreage.  This                                                             
is seen in lease sales in the United States.  Once that has been                                                                
achieved, the ball game changes fundamentally in the "upstream"                                                                 
industry.  The amounts of dollars required to develop fields is so                                                              
significant, the rifts are so large given the uncertainties that                                                                
traditionally the pendulum swings from hard-core competition to                                                                 
very significant cooperation.  This is to try and create the best                                                               
value possible.  This is done all over the world.  The two best                                                                 
examples of that cooperation are the wholesale facilities sharing                                                               
on the North Slope and sharing between companies with a smaller                                                                 
satellite pool here agreeing to use existing facilities in a bigger                                                             
field owned by another company. Another example is shared aviation                                                              
services.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
He summarized that the Charter will promote broader cooperation                                                                 
beyond the very traditional and classic divestitures that are                                                                   
required through an anti-trust action.  For instance, BP and ARCO                                                               
have agreed to share data that tens of millions of dollars were                                                                 
spent to acquire.  This should stimulate broader participation in                                                               
future lease sales.  They have also agreed to use arbitration in                                                                
shared facilities in case any party feels like negotiations aren't                                                              
being resolved in a timely manner.  They have also agreed to                                                                    
purchase oil at Pump Station #1 from those who want that option at                                                              
a price established by the State.  This would give more flexibility                                                             
to the smaller players.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. HOLT thought there would be efforts to push commercialization                                                               
of North Slope gas and, under the Charter, BP and ARCO have agreed                                                              
with the State to make gas available at an acceptable price. In                                                                 
addition, BP Amoco is committed to bringing a global gas technology                                                             
group to Alaska consisting of 25 world-class technologists to drive                                                             
their efforts to commercialize gas. They would establish a new gas                                                              
unit headed up by the very senior manager to solely focus on                                                                    
commercializing North Slope gas.  They would look at all options.                                                               
BP Amoco is an active member in the ARCO-led LNG sponsor group.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
His fourth and final point is that the merger is the result of                                                                  
irreversible trends in the increasingly global economy.  Some                                                                   
traditionally national oil companies are stepping out of their                                                                  
boundaries and competing in other parts of the world; and this                                                                  
trend will continue.  Oil companies will continue to consolidate to                                                             
reduce costs in order to compete more effectively globally.  He                                                                 
reiterated that the only factor private industry can influence is                                                               
cost.  The Exxon/Mobil transaction is the best recent example of                                                                
this.  They will continue to merge to achieve bigger scale, which                                                               
is necessary to invest in larger scale, riskier projects.  The                                                                  
nature of the oil industry involves tremendous risk.  You need the                                                              
scale to be able to do that on a consistent basis, particularly                                                                 
when you have the oil price cycling wildly up and down like it has                                                              
last year.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 00-04, SIDE B                                                                                                              
Number 580                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
You need to be able to survive when you're in the low end of the                                                                
cycle as in last year and be able to invest in the long-lead                                                                    
projects that are inherent to the oil industry.  Companies need to                                                              
be strong financially.  "This typically means having scale," MR.                                                                
HOLT said, "so you can make it through the low spots."                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Private energy companies increasingly need to be able to compete                                                                
with state-run oil companies.  Traditionally, nationalized oil                                                                  
companies are extending beyond their boundaries in competing with                                                               
private companies.  To compete with them, you have to get bigger                                                                
because they are bigger.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Alaska is not isolated from the global forces that work in the oil                                                              
industry even though we might want to be.  There's competition for                                                              
capital throughout the industry and competition for human                                                                       
resources.  Companies like Shell and Texaco have left the State,                                                                
for example.  We need to face reality and not think the problems                                                                
are going to solve themselves.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
"Accepting and working with these global trends will ultimately                                                                 
lead to the full development of the North Slope."  He reiterated                                                                
that Alaska's high costs have actually been heading the wrong way                                                               
on a per barrel basis making Alaska progressively less competitive                                                              
- given the high cost and the maturing field, and the rising unit                                                               
costs.  This merger is an opportunity to affect those costs.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
The summary on page 31 says that the quicker the merger is                                                                      
completed, the quicker Alaska can get back to making positive                                                                   
investment decisions that will preserve and extend the future of                                                                
the energy business here.  Time is an element.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Number 550                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked in terms of activity in the industry in the                                                              
State, they have heard there is industry slow-down because of the                                                               
merger and asks what really was happening to numbers of rigs,                                                                   
expenditures, etc. and what their proposed capital budget was for                                                               
next year.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. HOLT answered that 1999 was largely driven by the low oil                                                                   
prices and was a low activity year.  In 1998, they had 12-15 rigs                                                               
going; in 1999 they went down to 3-4 rigs.  This was largely driven                                                             
by the low oil prices.  For 2000, BP Amoco is pretty far along with                                                             
its independent business plans this year.  He goes to London                                                                    
tonight to get approval for his capital.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked him for a range of options in terms of                                                                   
capital expenditures.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. HOLT replied that he couldn't give him precise numbers, but                                                                 
that the momentum is swinging with Northstar which will continue no                                                             
matter what happens with the merger.  They are looking at a modest                                                              
uptake in drilling activity this year in things like satellite and                                                              
in-field drilling.  He would have a more accurate picture within                                                                
the next few weeks.  The merger has to do more with the longer term                                                             
and what happens with some of the new opportunities that might be                                                               
created.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALFORD said he thought it sounded like there wouldn't be                                                              
any reduced activity right now or even next year based on merger                                                                
considerations.  Those considerations are further in the future.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. CAMPBELL responded that things they made investment decisions                                                               
on some time ago are moving forward and they are spending more than                                                             
$250 million in development at Northstar this year.  The decisions                                                              
about new developments and new work that might involve a change of                                                              
ownership of assets, that might involve new operators, are                                                                      
difficult to make today until they can see clarity in the                                                                       
conclusion of the merger and the Charter.  The money they should be                                                             
spending today to do the projects in the future is on hold.  That's                                                             
the normal cycle of industry.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. HOLT explained that it's pretty hard to form an exploration                                                                 
program if you're not quite sure what acreage you're going to own.                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Number 498                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN said before the Charter, a year ago, BP                                                                    
indicated that they were willing to spend $5 billion over five                                                                  
years and they based their future spending on a projection of the                                                               
mid-teens for oil prices, and asked if that was primarily on                                                                    
development of Northstar, was it mixed between exploration and                                                                  
Northstar, or was it also including in-field drilling in Prudhoe                                                                
which they didn't plan to keep?  If that is the case, is there a                                                                
reason now that they are still not active, because they are not                                                                 
going to get rid of the Prudhoe Bay field.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. HOLT answered that the $5 billion commitment was expressed                                                                  
shortly after the deal was announced and they tried to use that as                                                              
a clear indication of their interest in growing the business here                                                               
in Alaska.  The ball game has changed since then with the                                                                       
divestiture, etc., so the $5 billion is off the table.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Regarding the in-field drilling at Prudhoe is directly related to                                                               
the cost of producing oil at Prudhoe Bay.  To the extent they can                                                               
achieve the step-change in cost, there will be more in-field                                                                    
drilling that will occur at Prudhoe Bay.  To the extent they are                                                                
not able to achieve it, it will be less.  If they can get the costs                                                             
lower by $.50 per barrel, there will be more wells drilled, because                                                             
it will be economically attractive for some wells.  If they are not                                                             
able to achieve the step-change in cost, there will ultimately be                                                               
less development.  The cost structure of the North Slope is what is                                                             
going to drive development of the North Slope.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. CAMPBELL added that the $5 billion was a commitment they were                                                               
willing to make at that time based on acquiring the full set of                                                                 
ARCO assets in Alaska.  It wasn't a plan, but it was a commitment.                                                              
That goes away because the deal has changed.  Projects that were                                                                
under way were included in that spending.  They had also hoped to                                                               
finance the vision they had for Alaska of new projects that would                                                               
become viable because of synergies that would be achieved with the                                                              
combination of both companies.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Number 454                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE PORTER said their original proposal had a savings of                                                             
$200 million, but now it's down to $140 was that the expense of                                                                 
development cost that had been reduced or what, he asked.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. HOLT answered that it wasn't a dollar for dollar correlation,                                                               
but there was a positive correlation.  Of the $5 billion there are                                                              
too many variable to comment on.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Number 439                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA said she is trying to understand the risks                                                              
the State faces in going from two buyers to one big buyer and one                                                               
or two lesser buyers.  She appreciated the explanation of the                                                                   
global scenario, but wanted to know how to deal with the risk at                                                                
the Alaskan level.  She felt the two perspectives were at odds with                                                             
one another.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. HOLT said in his view, there are more than 10 companies who own                                                             
an interest on the North Slope.  Some of them are very large                                                                    
companies.  The nature of how decisions are made and who has                                                                    
control with regard to the operation of the North Slope are all                                                                 
highly defined through things like unit agreements and unit                                                                     
operating agreements.  Many companies, although they have small                                                                 
interests, actually have control as to whether something happens or                                                             
not.  For instance, at Prudhoe Bay many of the investment decisions                                                             
require 90 percent owner approval.  BP owns 51 percent, ARCO owns                                                               
21 percent, and even combining those two doesn't give them                                                                      
sufficient control to actually control things.  Another owner                                                                   
company has to approve them.  In most cases on the North Slope                                                                  
today where BP has an interest, Exxon has the controlling vote.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Today more than 10 companies own interests; three players and often                                                             
more have controlling votes.  In the world we're heading for with                                                               
the merger there's the potential of four companies having control                                                               
of decision making.  There's a plus and a minus to that.  It could                                                              
take more energy to get four companies to agree to do things than                                                               
it takes three, but the notion because BP Amoco has around 50                                                                   
percent of the production does not equate to control. They do not                                                               
have sole decision making power.  They can block vote as does                                                                   
Exxon, and as will the two new buyers.  There are potentially four                                                              
companies with blocking votes, whereas today there are three.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Number 439                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA said she understood his point that there                                                                
may be more competition because of the merger, but would BP Amoco                                                               
become a more powerful buyer.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. HOLT answered that he didn't know how she measured power.  His                                                              
business unit is in the Prudhoe Bay field and he has business                                                                   
agreements he has to adhere to.  They define who has the power and                                                              
this is reflected in things like what percentage of votes are                                                                   
required to make decisions.  This is where the real power presides.                                                             
The BP Amoco merger does not give them any more power in Prudhoe                                                                
Bay.  They still need to get more owner companies to say yes to                                                                 
things - in particular Exxon.  He did not agree with the assertion                                                              
that more production meant more power.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR. NOBLE added that in the primary phase where the State is the                                                                
seller and BP Amoco is the buyer is in selling development rights,                                                              
leases, and things like that.  At that point the State is probably                                                              
the most powerful seller in the world.  There are 10-15 ways they                                                               
could handle placing those leases in the hands of people who                                                                    
develop them.  It's a global market and the people who can                                                                      
participate are dictated by the manner in which you handle the                                                                  
sales.  In fact, with new players coming in and with the addition                                                               
of the seismic data, he would expect it to be more dynamic than it                                                              
has ever been.  What becomes a determining factor really becomes                                                                
how attractive it is to be here in the first place.  That becomes                                                               
a function of the cost base of the Slope.  This is something they                                                               
are trying to address.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Number 325                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA said that ARCO didn't always go along with                                                              
everything and that they didn't really know, yet, what the "shake-                                                              
out" would be with all the operators.  And that's her concern.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. HOLT agreed that BP Amoco and ARCO had not always agreed on                                                                 
investing decisions, but they have always worked out those                                                                      
differences.  He added that Exxon has always been a key part in                                                                 
bringing another perspective to the table and they would continue                                                               
to do that.  On occasion, the smaller owners at Prudhoe Bay would                                                               
do that.  These "smaller" companies are Chevron and Phillips which                                                              
are actually big companies.  Even though they don't make headlines,                                                             
they are at the table influencing decision making and often they                                                                
have a controlling vote for a negotiation.  There is a variety of                                                               
other views there besides BP's. Even though they have small                                                                     
interests, they know how to play the game.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. CAMPBELL emphasized that knowing the companies that have been                                                               
looking at these assets, he wouldn't expect to get any less of a                                                                
challenge on an on-going basis from the new owners of these assets                                                              
than they have in the past.  These companies are going to be in the                                                             
leadership position at Kuparuk and Alpine.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Number 290                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked about the agreement and when they list Buyer                                                             
B and a percentage, he thought the agreement said the majority                                                                  
ownership of Alpine would go to a different company and a majority                                                              
of Kuparuk would go to a different company; and yet the                                                                         
presentation on page 21 shows Alpine at only 43.1 percent going to                                                              
a different company.  He asked how that worked.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. NOBLE answered that selling 40 percent would make the other                                                                 
party the largest interest.  So it would be making another company                                                              
the largest.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked if it didn't require to be a majority                                                                    
interest.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. HOLT replied that it requires another company to become the                                                                 
largest owner.  The combination of BP Amoco and ARCO would own 78                                                               
percent of Alpine and the proposal is to sell 43 percent (leaving                                                               
them with BP with 35 percent).  If a new company bought that 43                                                                 
percent, they would be the largest owner of Alpine.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked if it's not Anadarko, it will not be a                                                                   
majority owner of the field.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. HOLT replied that if he meant by majority greater than 50                                                                   
percent, that was correct.  If he meant majority to mean the                                                                    
largest owner, the new company will be the largest owner as well as                                                             
the operator.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Number 270                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR PEARCE said she appreciated the companies giving their                                                                  
attorneys access to their 2,000 boxes of documents.  It made their                                                              
efforts a lot more meaningful.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
She said the original agreement would have allowed 100 percent                                                                  
ownership of the assets owned by ARCO and BP to go to BP ownership                                                              
and asked what percentage of the present assets of BP and ARCO go                                                               
to BP after the divestiture today.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR. HOLT answered that there was not simple measure.  In terms of                                                               
current production, 175,000 barrels per day of working production                                                               
is about 50 percent of ARCO's current production.  He said they                                                                 
wouldn't know the value of the assets to be divested until they                                                                 
actually do the divestiture.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. NOBLE added that he thought just in Alaska, on the exploration                                                              
production side, it becomes approximately 50 percent of ARCO will                                                               
be divested and put in other hands.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR PEARCE asked if that meant BP co-ownership goes from 50                                                                 
percent to 75 percent of the North Slope assets.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. NOBLE agreed with that.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Number 220                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked what level of TAPS divestiture was in that                                                               
calculation.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. NOBLE said being a lawyer, he was the worst one to value                                                                    
anything, but for value he first looked at the production assets.                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR. CAMPBELL said he didn't think they would go anywhere, because                                                               
the numbers were not available.  If they were going to acquire all                                                              
of ARCO's assets, they would have 100 percent of the combined                                                                   
assets.  If they divest half of them, they would end up with 75                                                                 
percent of the combined BP/ARCO assets.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Another way to look at it is if they acquire ARCO's share of the                                                                
pipeline, they would go from just over 50 percent to 72 percent.                                                                
In the Charter, they would be divesting about 13 percent of that 22                                                             
percent of the pipeline with buyers A and B and there is a                                                                      
provision to dilute even further by selling off the additional 9                                                                
percent.  After the deal is done, they could still be back at the                                                               
original position in terms of a BP ownership in Alyeska.  In terms                                                              
of production, whatever is quoted as the increase in production,                                                                
they would dilute by half of that approximately.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Number 170                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR PEARCE said last year in a speech on January 22, 1999, Mr.                                                              
Albert gave a keynote speech for BP.  In the speech he said there                                                               
would be more competition for the rare investment dollars because                                                               
of the state of world oil prices.  This made a lot of sense at the                                                              
time.  He said also that Alaska still has a highly significant                                                                  
resource base and that the infrastructure is in place to develop                                                                
its further potential in accordance with our (BP's) standards of                                                                
care.  He also said the BP Amoco was in it for the long hall.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Their presentation on page 3 says that at this time last year, the                                                              
North Slope was at risk of losing its position as an attractive                                                                 
place to invest in new exploration and production capital and was                                                               
at risk of becoming a subpar global prospect.  She thought there                                                                
was a discrepancy in the two statements.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. CAMPBELL responded that they are not implying that BP is going                                                              
to leave Alaska.  Alaska is going to remain an important part of BP                                                             
Amoco's portfolio.  That doesn't detract from the fact that they                                                                
will make a level of investment decisions on the competitiveness of                                                             
Alaska with other places around the world. All companies do that.                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR. NOBLE responded that there were differences in perspective of                                                               
Mr. Holt's first point and Mr. Albert's first point.  Mr. Holt's                                                                
point was not just BP's perspective, but industry perspective,                                                                  
because they can't invest in Alaska alone, no matter how they do                                                                
it.  This is a partnership business and they need everyone voting                                                               
with their dollars in Alaska at the same time to get the fullest                                                                
possible development.  They are here to stay, but they aren't here                                                              
alone.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Number 119                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR PEARCE asked if we were at risk last year of not being at                                                               
an attractive place to invest, and if the merger is important                                                                   
because it brings in $140 million per year in cost efficiencies,                                                                
why would Alaska be so attractive to all the companies which they                                                               
say are interested in buying what are realistically much smaller                                                                
prospectors for buyer A(Kuparuk) and buyer B(Alpine) without the                                                                
opportunity for efficiencies they will be getting from the merger.                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR. HOLT responded that using the words "bad" and "good" are                                                                    
totally relative.  Asset sales of the magnitude these divestitures                                                              
represent don't come along very often.  They are unique                                                                         
opportunities.  Companies don't often have a chance to make                                                                     
investments in asset purchases or profit centers like this in a new                                                             
region.  It is very difficult to do that through a lease sale; it                                                               
takes a long time.  Some companies will see this as a very unique                                                               
opportunity to establish a toe hold in the region and may see                                                                   
opportunities to bring their own technologies to the table to                                                                   
further reduce costs.  They may see higher prospectivity than other                                                             
companies see.  What will determine whether a company chooses to                                                                
bid on the divestments is they will take a long term view of how                                                                
Alaska stacks up to other places.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
There is a lot of oil in Alaska, but the key to unlocking it is                                                                 
managing the costs.  Other companies will see this as an                                                                        
opportunity to establish a big presence.  Kuparuk is the second                                                                 
largest field in the United States and you don't get the                                                                        
opportunity to buy more than 50 percent of the second largest field                                                             
in the U.S. ever.  He didn't see Alaska's relative attractiveness                                                               
as a place to draw continuing investment is diminishing.  To the                                                                
extent they can reduce the cost base on a relative basis, it will                                                               
draw more on-going investment in Alaska.  This is different than                                                                
the one time opportunity that the divestments represent.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Number 43                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR PEARCE asked if it's that great, since they would end up                                                                
holding between 65 and 80 percent of the holdings of the old ARCO                                                               
and BP, why are they taking the $5 billion off the table and not                                                                
putting another there in its place.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. CAMPBELL asked if they could come back to that question when                                                                
they are finished with the previous answer.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR PEARCE acquiesced.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. NOBLE continued to explain that the assets that have to be sold                                                             
will go without a minimum price.  This adds to the unique                                                                       
opportunity for people coming in.  Cost savings BP expects to get                                                               
are not going to be only enjoyed by them.  More production reduces                                                              
the cost base of the entire North Slope.  There is an advantage in                                                              
that to everyone.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 00-05, SIDE A                                                                                                              
Number 001                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. NOBLE said, "Oil production will lower tariff.   Increasing the                                                             
TAPS tariff is a function of volume, in large part.  Greater                                                                    
production leads to lower tariffs."                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. CAMPBELL turned to Senator Pearce's earlier question regarding                                                              
capital spending.  As mentioned earlier, when the announcement was                                                              
made that BP Amoco and ARCO desired to combine there were a series                                                              
of commitments.  Those commitments included the $5 billion capital                                                              
expenditure over a five year period.  At that time, it was felt                                                                 
those commitments would satisfy concerns in Alaska about the                                                                    
merger.  He acknowledged that since that time, Alaska in the form                                                               
of the Administration has expressed the desire to follow the path                                                               
encompassed in the Charter.  He pointed out that the Charter does                                                               
not refer to the aforementioned capital expenditure.  Mr. Campbell                                                              
said that although he did not have the information today, he would                                                              
be happy to inform everyone of what his capital expenditures will                                                               
be in Alaska for the year 2000 as well as the planning basis for                                                                
the following years.  He clarified that he would be happy to                                                                    
provide that information as soon as those figures are complete and                                                              
as soon he knew what assets he would own in Alaska.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR PEARCE referred to page 6 of BP Amoco's presentation, which                                                             
specifies BP Amoco's 1997 world exploration and production capital                                                              
expenditures.  She then referred to page 9 of BP Amoco's                                                                        
presentation, which specifies costs in various countries in                                                                     
comparison to Alaska.  Although no year is specified in regard to                                                               
the costs, she assumed that costs stay, on a relative basis, fairly                                                             
similar country to country.  Therefore, she assumed the figures                                                                 
could be compared.  Senator Pearce turned to the notion that Alaska                                                             
is a high cost region by global standards.  She inquired as to the                                                              
investment opportunities, in those countries listed, for                                                                        
international oil companies that are not nationalized oil                                                                       
companies.  Of those countries listed, where are the investment                                                                 
opportunities for BP Amoco or BP Amoco/ARCO.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. HOLT pointed out that Venezuela is "open for business."  He                                                                 
informed the committee that the capital that has flown into                                                                     
Venezuela in the last two years is appreciable, including capital                                                               
from companies such as ARCO and BP Amoco.  He indicated that                                                                    
countries such as Kuwait are interesting in that companies such as                                                              
BP Amoco, Chevron, Exxon, et cetera have worked for a number of                                                                 
years to establish a presence in the country.  Most of the                                                                      
companies in Kuwait share the view that "it is just a matter of                                                                 
time."  Mr. Holt estimated that BP has about 100 people in Kuwait.                                                              
Kuwait has indicated that it would like to invite more foreign                                                                  
participation, although he noted that such does take time.  He                                                                  
noted that over the past two years, other countries have been                                                                   
consistently sending signals that more private participation is                                                                 
desired.  BP Amoco and its competitors are "at the door."                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Number 120                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR PEARCE interjected:                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     That's fine, but to put a chart like this in front of us                                                                   
     - with the possible exception of Venezuela, where I know                                                                   
     both companies were active in the offerings because I                                                                      
     happened to be there when both companies were winners of                                                                   
     offerings - those were in the frontier areas where I                                                                       
     suspect the cost in the frontier areas aren't the costs                                                                    
     we see on this sheet -  because I suspect those costs,                                                                     
     finding and development costs, have Petroelas de                                                                           
     Venezuela South America (P.D.V.S.A.) numbers and are also                                                                  
     opportunities in areas that aren't available.  But I                                                                       
     guess, if you don't have present opportunities there, if                                                                   
     you can't, on one hand, say we're a high cost region by                                                                    
     global standards, as though that should affect our                                                                         
     interests here in Alaska and how we deal with the oil                                                                      
     industry when these companies aren't, at present,                                                                          
     available for investment, with the exception of                                                                            
     Venezuela.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. CAMPBELL responded that he believed it was the same CERA report                                                             
that this material was taken from.  There is a comparison of Alaska                                                             
with some 30 other states and countries, which illustrates that                                                                 
Alaska lies in the middle with regard to its competitiveness on                                                                 
these parameters.  Mr. Campbell acknowledged that Senator Pearce                                                                
may be correct with regard to Venezuela, but the international                                                                  
industry has had a "feeding frenzy" with Venezuela over the last                                                                
few years.  With regards to Kuwait, the Middle East will always be                                                              
focus of attention for the industry because of the very large                                                                   
reserve that it has and the low productions cost.  He noted that                                                                
access is clearly the issue in this area, although Kuwait and Saudi                                                             
Arabia are discussing access.  Iraq and Iran remain politically                                                                 
difficult to deal with.  Mr. Campbell informed the committee that                                                               
this chart does not include the African countries such as Angola,                                                               
where the industry has recently experienced success.  South America                                                             
could also be discussed.  There are many opportunities and data                                                                 
that could be included on this chart on page 9.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR PEARCE agreed.  However, with regard to discussions of                                                                  
worldwide opportunities for BP Amoco/ARCO capital and why something                                                             
happening in Alaska should be liked or disliked, then there should                                                              
be comparison between Alaska and the places that capital is likely                                                              
to go.  The industry put $3 billion up-front in Venezuela in only                                                               
one of the three offerings.  Of course, the investment dollars                                                                  
followed because they often sign contracts that specify that a                                                                  
certain amount will be spent over a specified amount of years in                                                                
investments over the $3 billion.  Senator Pearce believed that BP                                                               
Amoco actually signed a contract saying that a specified amount                                                                 
would be spent over a specified time frame and if that did not                                                                  
occur, then the leases would be returned.  Perhaps, the same sort                                                               
of opportunities could be had here.  She suspected such a proposal                                                              
would be welcomed.  She maintained that the examples provided are                                                               
not good examples of the other opportunities for capital                                                                        
investment.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR PEARCE turned to the cost chart on page 14 of the                                                                       
presentation.  She commented that these are "round numbers" as were                                                             
the numbers discussed by Mr. Albert in January of last year.                                                                    
Senator Pearce  recalled that Mr. Albert said that at $10.50 oil,                                                               
it cost the industry $3.00 to produce the barrel, $3.00 to develop                                                              
that barrel, $2.00 on taxes and $2.50 to move it to market.  Those                                                              
numbers have no earnings.  She inquired as to what has happened to                                                              
make the cost rise that much; what is the difference between the                                                                
$10.50 oil and the $15.00 oil, in terms of the cost?                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR. HOLT specified that the pie chart is from CERA and is not a BP                                                              
view.  Therefore, he deferred to CERA.  Mr. Holt presumed that CERA                                                             
was taking the view of industry.  In further response to Senator                                                                
Pearce, he stated that this is Alaska specific.  Again, he deferred                                                             
to CERA.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALFORD noted that the page 9 chart is also from CERA.                                                                 
Therefore, is it not BP's view that the total cost to market for                                                                
Alaska oil is $10.00.  If $10.00 is not the number, then what is.                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Number 225                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. CAMPBELL guessed that BP's view is that the cost of production                                                              
is around $10.00.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
AN UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER [MR. HOLT] said that he did not know the                                                                
following as a fact.  However, he believed that part of the                                                                     
difference between the $4.00 specified in the chart and the $2.50                                                               
on the transportation cost has to do with whether or not one owns                                                               
interest in a pipeline.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. NOBLE stated that he believed that Mr. Albert's statement that                                                              
the transportation cost of $2.50 is referring to transportation to                                                              
Valdez.  Here, in the chart, he believed the transportation cost                                                                
refers to transportation to California.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CROFT returned to page 9 of the chart.  He informed                                                              
the committee that he reviewed the CERA report, which lists all the                                                             
cost centers, not just those listed on page 9.  He pointed out that                                                             
the CERA report lists the lowest in the world, in order, as Iraq,                                                               
Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Venezuela, and Iran.  He asked if the lowest                                                              
were chosen.  Furthermore, he asked if there are significant                                                                    
nationalization trends in some or all of those areas.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. NOBLE informed the committee that he was looking at the CERA                                                                
report entitled, "White Paper Industry Contacts" from September                                                                 
1999.  He believed that chart on page 9 of the handout is CERA's                                                                
chart, Table #2 on page 19 of CERA's report.  He indicated that it                                                              
is an unedited list.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CROFT maintained that the chart he has from the CERA                                                             
report shows them all [the cost centers].  This chart has Alaska in                                                             
the middle.  With regard to Mr. Campbell's comments that Angola and                                                             
Brazil are alternative sources, the CERA chart shows that the full                                                              
cycle cost of oil for Angola to be about 50 percent higher than in                                                              
Alaska, while in Brazil is shown to be one of the highest in the                                                                
world.  Representative Croft acknowledged that it excludes                                                                      
transportation but, as Senator Pearce noted, a fair amount of the                                                               
transportation costs are tariffs where there is an ownership                                                                    
(indisc.).  Representative Croft asked if it is true that Angola                                                                
and Brazil, before transportation, have higher costs than Alaska.                                                               
Furthermore, are those the countries Alaska is competing against.                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR. CAMPBELL indicated agreement with Representative Croft's                                                                    
interpretation of the CERA chart in that Alaska is in the middle                                                                
and the numbers do not include transportation costs.  With regard                                                               
to political stability, Mr. Campbell agreed that is something                                                                   
companies review when considering investing in countries.  He                                                                   
recalled that there have been nationalizations in the past,                                                                     
although he felt that it is somewhat "out of fashion" now.                                                                      
However, companies will continue to review countries in terms of                                                                
political stability, the size of reserves that can found, and                                                                   
whether the company can establish a large presence in that country.                                                             
Countries such as Brazil and Angola do offer opportunities for                                                                  
companies to establish substantial positions in those countries.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CROFT referred to the cost savings achieved under                                                                
the two charter proposals.  He then inquired as to the other areas                                                              
cost savings could be achieved.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. HOLT answered that the savings come from areas where there are                                                              
overlapping operations.  For example, in the North Sea the savings                                                              
would be achieved through deleting duplicate facilities because the                                                             
combined companies would not need such an extensive corporate                                                                   
office that ARCO has in Los Angeles.  Other cost savings would be                                                               
achieved from research centers because all of them would not be                                                                 
necessary after the merger.  Therefore, the savings would be                                                                    
achieved in areas of overlap in either corporate offices, research                                                              
centers, or operating areas such as the North Slope.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALFORD pointed out that the committee is behind schedule                                                              
and there have also been requests for executive session on                                                                      
confidential information.  He suggested the committee take a half                                                               
hour lunch break and come back to BP.  He announced that the                                                                    
Administration would not want to push back its timing much due to                                                               
some testifiers who are teleconferenced from the East Coast.  If                                                                
the meeting goes into executive session, Chairman Halford requested                                                             
that it be kept an all-member executive session at least for the                                                                
nonconfidential information.  Then a collective decision regarding                                                              
how to proceed could be addressed.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR. CAMPBELL, in response to Representative Green's question, said                                                              
that his staff have some time constraints that may affect their                                                                 
ability to testify after the Administration.  Mr. Campbell offered                                                              
to return after lunch.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALFORD announced, at 12:40 a.m., that the committee would                                                             
break for a half hour.  The committee reconvened at 1:30 p.m.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Number 349                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ELTON referred to the $140 million that accrues in                                                               
savings helps the investment (indisc.) of Alaska.  He recalled that                                                             
at yesterday's meeting a committee expert suggested that a large                                                                
part of that $140 million could accrue outside the framework of the                                                             
merger.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. HOLT commented that, in BP's view, that little to none of that                                                              
$140 million could be achieved without a major structural event                                                                 
such as the proposed merger.  As production has declined, the                                                                   
existing operators/owners on the North Slope have been working hard                                                             
to take the cost out of the system on the North Slope.  He informed                                                             
the committee that "we" [BP] feels it has tried everything under                                                                
the existing structure of separate companies and separate                                                                       
operations.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
[There is a small break in the tape, only a few seconds.]                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. HOLT noted that BP has worked with the other owners [on the                                                                 
North Slope] over the last 10 years in order to affect some of the                                                              
structural changes such as a single operator at Prudhoe Bay.  Those                                                             
efforts have been unsuccessful.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked if a single operator would achieve a large                                                               
portion or any portion of the $140 million.  He acknowledged that                                                               
a single operator may be difficult to achieve.  He asked if                                                                     
achieving a single operator would be a structural event.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. HOLT agreed that such would be a structural event, although it                                                              
would not be as big as the proposed merger.  Therefore, he could                                                                
not provide a specific percentage that could be attributable to                                                                 
achieving a single operator.  He indicated that a fair portion                                                                  
would be attributable to a single operator, but not all.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR WILKEN referred to page 14 and the pie chart entitled "Cost                                                             
Reductions Increase Earnings Materially in Investment Case ($15)."                                                              
                                                                                                                                
[There is a break in transmission.]                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR WILKEN asked if [the $.56] (indisc.) in the transportation                                                              
of the oil is part of the $9.70 cost or part of the $1.28 in                                                                    
earnings.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. HOLT said that he did not know where the $.56 comes from.  He                                                               
indicated that he would have to talk to CERA to obtain a direct                                                                 
answer.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR WILKEN explained that the $.56 is a pre-tax margin built                                                                
into every fair up oil transport per TAPS.  Senator Wilken said                                                                 
that he did not know if that $.56 was counted as cost or earnings,                                                              
which would make a difference.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. CAMPBELL answered that they would be happy to get back to                                                                   
Senator Wilken with that answer.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN clarified that he wanted to make sure that his                                                             
series of questions was not misconstrued as negative.                                                                           
Representative Green agreed with BP Amoco's statement on page 23                                                                
that, "The resulting combined packages of divestitures represents                                                               
a comprehensive re-engineering of a major oil province without                                                                  
precedent in the United States, or even the world."  That statement                                                             
could be raised exponentially in regards to the importance to                                                                   
Alaskans.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Number 397                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN recalled that it had been reviewed to some                                                                 
degree that oil prices had declined last year.  He acknowledged the                                                             
difficulty for BP Amoco to make a commitment with regard to how                                                                 
much money it will spend since it does not know what properties it                                                              
will own after the "dust settles."  Representative Green surmised                                                               
that if all the known and producing fields are declining, then                                                                  
Alaska must find real oil in order to have continued viability.                                                                 
Therefore, exploration is necessary.  He expressed concern that it                                                              
was unknown how much BP Amoco's commitment to spend $5 billion over                                                             
five years would go toward developing known oil accumulations or                                                                
exploration.  One of the most dynamic exploration companies in                                                                  
Alaska has been ARCO and if ARCO is gone, will the commitment of                                                                
the merged company be as aggressive.  Representative Green noted                                                                
the discussion that Alaska is one of the many opportunities in the                                                              
world and pointed out that ARCO viewed that far differently.  How                                                               
much of ARCO's aggressive exploration attitude may continue?                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. CAMPBELL replied that clearly, BP Amoco is committed to a                                                                   
exploration program in Alaska, as has been the case in the past.                                                                
He commented that "we" will end up with acreage in NPRA and that is                                                             
something that will be aggressively explored.  With regards to                                                                  
offering state acreage for farmers, he explained that the aim is to                                                             
ensure that there is the maximum amount of work and exploration on                                                              
those acres that are farmed out.  He said that "we" are not                                                                     
interested in selling that acreage, "we" are interested in building                                                             
on the base that "we" have established with additional exploration.                                                             
He indicated that he could not specify a number of the $5 billion                                                               
that would be put towards exploration.  However, he emphasized BP                                                               
Amoco's commitment to exploration in Alaska.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN understood the divestiture of acreage down to                                                              
the maximum would not be divestiture of 100 percent of any groups                                                               
of acres, but rather a percentage of each.  He acknowledged that BP                                                             
Amoco cannot guarantee anything is this realm, it certainly has                                                                 
veto power for a company coming in that may want to aggressively                                                                
explore.  He realized that there would be agreements providing for                                                              
companies such as [the merged company].  However, there could also                                                              
be agreements that contain nonconsent clauses, which would charge                                                               
a large rate on the money that [the merged company] would otherwise                                                             
spent.  He asked if this will be a deterrent to companies                                                                       
interested in coming to Alaska to be aggressive; is that a                                                                      
monopoly.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. NOBLE agreed that the Charter does contain a provision that any                                                             
divested exploration acres will include nonconsent provisions so                                                                
that BP Amoco would not have the contractual ability to stop the                                                                
investment of investor in any property.  However, it is in BP                                                                   
Amoco's interest to find attractive packages.  BP Amoco, as the                                                                 
largest infrastructure owner and largest owner of a fixed cost base                                                             
on the North Slope - no one has a larger interest in increased                                                                  
production save the state.  He informed the committee that a number                                                             
of those packages include majority ownership of those whereas the                                                               
Charter provided the opportunity for the company to dilute the                                                                  
interest.  The packages are structured such that they are                                                                       
attractive for investors.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. HOLT added that there is risk in the exploration arena, and                                                                 
therefore it is typical for folks to partner in order not to bear                                                               
100 percent of the risk.  Of course, people want to partner with                                                                
those who have knowledge and/or capital.  He believed the ability                                                               
to partner with others existing players or not would be attractive                                                              
in many cases.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN expressed concern with BP's exploration                                                                    
efforts, which were far less than those of ARCO.  He was concerned                                                              
that with the merger that emphasis [on exploration] may be lost,                                                                
especially coupled with statements referring to the competitiveness                                                             
of the world market.  With regard to the mention that Shell and                                                                 
Texaco have left Alaska, Representative Green wondered if that                                                                  
occurred due to Alaska's hostile and high-cost environment.  He                                                                 
noted that Shell and Texaco had the least developed and drilled                                                                 
acreage on the North Slope, which this merger would make available                                                              
to BP Amoco.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. HOLT said that he could not speak for Shell or Texaco.  He                                                                  
reiterated that when a company decides whether to enter, exit, or                                                               
stay in a region many factors are considered.  Factors such as the                                                              
cost structure of that region which determines the profit potential                                                             
of that region, the government take, the stability of the region,                                                               
and the prospectivity of the region are all reviewed.  He guessed                                                               
that companies that have left have reviewed those factors and                                                                   
determined that other opportunities looked better.  With regard to                                                              
one of the factors being that the company did not have an                                                                       
infrastructure position, Mr. Holt acknowledged that it may have                                                                 
been a factor.  However, he pointed out that the infrastructure                                                                 
position could have been picked up.  He mentioned that BP Amoco has                                                             
not had people pursuing obtaining interest in TAPS.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN understood that BP Amoco did not want to                                                                   
disclose with whom it has had conversations.  However, has the                                                                  
situation alluded to earlier been a deterrent to those companies                                                                
interested.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Number 547                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. NOBLE stated that with BP Amoco has strict confidentiality                                                                  
agreements with all the companies.  Therefore, he did not want to                                                               
answer.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN referred to page 8 and the indication that                                                                 
there are things that could be modified such as taxes and                                                                       
royalties.  He asked if BP Amoco would be suggesting that Alaska                                                                
would do well to reconsider the tax structure and the royalty                                                                   
demands.  "Or that we can continue to be viable as we are, if we                                                                
don't go the other way with them?"                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR. CAMPBELL echoed the earlier comments that "we" could only                                                                   
affect the costs.  He added that producers in the state always need                                                             
to look at opportunities for development.  If that can be                                                                       
encouraged by the state reviewing a tax code, that is a choice for                                                              
the state.  He indicated the need for Alaska to review its                                                                      
competitiveness in comparison with other places around the world.                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked then if Mr. Campbell meant that Alaska's                                                                 
taxes and royalties are reasonable at this point.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN pointed out that Mr. Campbell's testimony has                                                              
indicated that it is imperative to reduce costs as it makes for a                                                               
better profit picture.  He said, "I'm wondering about the fields                                                                
that are higher cost operating fields than Prudhoe are those that                                                               
you are indicating you would be willing to divest in, but that the                                                              
Charter expires in 2008 and if you extrapolate the performance                                                                  
curve at Prudhoe ... out to about 2008 ... then we're gonna have                                                                
water oil ratios that are probably up five, six, seven, eight to                                                                
one instead of two to one."  Therefore, operating costs rise much                                                               
higher, but it is still profitable.  He acknowledged that the lower                                                             
the performance curve to the economic limit, the less profit is                                                                 
obtained.  In general, that is an asymptotic curve that extends for                                                             
years and years if one is willing to work in a low margin such as                                                               
the Cook Inlet fields.  He inquired as to what BP's attitude would                                                              
be if the merger was intact and the year is 2005 or so and the                                                                  
declined curve can be helped with in-field drilling and more                                                                    
technology.  However, it is inevitable that the economic limit will                                                             
be reached some day.  He recognized that those five to ten years                                                                
that it is nursed along will not mean much to the operator,                                                                     
although it would have tremendous meaning to the state.  Therefore,                                                             
"we" have introduced reduction in royalties when that has happened.                                                             
Representative Green asked if BP plans to be present in Alaska, for                                                             
the long haul, on low profit fields as well as any new fields,                                                                  
which may have a higher profit ratio.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. CAMPBELL said BP would be here in the long term                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 00-05, SIDE B                                                                                                              
Number 580                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN commented, "Okay, long-term."                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR. CAMPBELL pointed out that BP had not once asked the state to                                                                
divest anything.  Therefore, he said that BP would be happy to be                                                               
in all the fields.  We would be happy to stay in Kuparuk, to be in                                                              
Alpine, and to continue in all of Prudhoe.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. HOLT said, with the "Kirby's" aside, he would agree.  As fields                                                             
such as Prudhoe decline, there will be a long tail and BP fully                                                                 
intends to make that tail as long as it can.  One of the                                                                        
motivations for trying to create a step change in cost in existing                                                              
fields, as well as existing use fields, is to help extend the life                                                              
of the field.  BP intends to be part of driving that curve out as                                                               
far in time as possible.  Mr. Holt expressed pride in being part of                                                             
the owners which have achieved more from Prudhoe than was                                                                       
originally anticipated.  The proposed merger will enable the                                                                    
company to extend that further, but the number of specific years is                                                             
not known.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Number 571                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN turned to the heavy oil associated with the                                                                
Milne Point Schrader Bluff area.  He acknowledged that BP Amoco has                                                             
been greatly involved with the Schrader Bluff area.  Representative                                                             
Green surmised that it would be unlikely that the heavy oil will                                                                
ever be as lucrative on a per barrel basis as the light oil.  He                                                                
asked if BP Amoco intends to perform research with regard to                                                                    
extracting poor quality oil as well as the better oil.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR. CAMPBELL replied yes because it is in BP Amoco's interest, both                                                             
in respect to Alaska and other places around the world.  He noted                                                               
that heavy [oil] in Alaska is not heavy in other places and the                                                                 
climate and temperature also come into play as well.  He affirmed                                                               
that BP Amoco would continue its work on heavier oils.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR. HOLT directed the committee's attention to the amount of money,                                                             
several hundred million dollars over the last five years, that BP                                                               
Amoco has invested in Milne Point.  A fair amount of the investment                                                             
was to try to progress the heavier accumulation of development at                                                               
Schrader Bluff.  He also noted that at Prudhoe Bay there is some                                                                
heavier oil as well, such as the Schrader Bluff Satellite.  We are                                                              
working aggressively to try to develop ways to more of that heavy                                                               
oil.  Mr. Holt said, "We are fully committed to keep (indisc. -                                                                 
coughing) inputting investment capital at risk to try to ...                                                                    
further develop that."                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR. CAMPBELL informed the committee that BP Amoco's work at Milne                                                               
Point has increased that production three times since BP Amoco took                                                             
it over from Conoco.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN referred to the chart on page 14.  He recalled                                                             
charts of an earlier era in which the ratio was one-third to one-                                                               
third to one-third between the state, federal government and                                                                    
operators.    This chart seems to be considerably skewed; is that                                                               
triad no longer valid?                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR. HOLT answered that there are at least two factors at play.  The                                                             
costs have increased over time, which is the dark slice of costs.                                                               
The other factor is that the relative proportion of take is a                                                                   
function of the absolute oil price.  There are elements of the                                                                  
state tax, which are independent of price.  Therefore, as prices                                                                
fall, the lower prices the relative take associated with government                                                             
take actually increases.  If prices go above $15 [per barrel], the                                                              
share of the earnings would shade more toward industry.  He                                                                     
specified that it is a function of the tax regime, and therefore                                                                
the oil price assumption will drive the relative size of those                                                                  
slices.  The cost will also drive the relative size of those                                                                    
slices.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN understood then that this curve would,                                                                     
relative to each other, would improve if the oil moved back to the                                                              
mid-teens or $20 oil [per barrel].                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR. HOLT said that the curve would improve for industry if oil                                                                  
prices were higher than $15 [per barrel].  He also pointed out that                                                             
the curve would improve for industry if some of the cost could be                                                               
taken out.  It would improve for everyone, if cost was taken out.                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALFORD mentioned the windfall profits tax, which would                                                                
substantially change the equation.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR TAYLOR inquired as to the date that was used to fix the                                                                 
valuation of assets that BP Amoco would acquire from ARCO in the                                                                
merger.  Was that date and valuation period at a time when oil                                                                  
prices were $10 or less?  Currently, oil is at $25 per barrel, and                                                              
therefore he assumed that oil assets probably have a greater value                                                              
today than when BP Amoco acquired them through the merger                                                                       
documents.  He inquired as to the amount of profits that BP Amoco                                                               
would project it would make off of the forced liquidation or                                                                    
divestiture of ARCO assets through this merger or the Charter, if                                                               
it proceeds.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. NOBLE said that he recalled that because of the share-to-share                                                              
trade, he believed that the valuations are fixed in the range of                                                                
the time of close.  Therefore, as other forces go forward then the                                                              
price of oil is reflected in both sets of shares.  He noted that                                                                
there ends up being a readjustment, but he did not believe there to                                                             
be a risk of false pricing based on oil prices on one side of the                                                               
equation and not the other.  In summary, he believed that the two                                                               
move together towards the closing date.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR TAYLOR referred to the $9.70 cost per barrel reflected in                                                               
the CERA report and recalled that Mr. Campbell testified that BP                                                                
Amoco's cost to be a "ballpark" figure of $10.  He said that cost                                                               
is reduced relative to the merger by $140 million or some portion                                                               
of the $1 billion in overall savings, this is according to BP                                                                   
Amoco's numbers.  He asked what the projected cost would then be;                                                               
would it be $8 per barrel?                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. NOBLE responded that he believed that the figures currently                                                                 
being worked with would place it in the range of $.60 per barrel.                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR. HOLT explained that if one took the $9.70 from the CERA report                                                              
and the $140 million referred to by BP Amoco would take it down to                                                              
the $9 range.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR TAYLOR surmised then that such would increase the earnings                                                              
reflected on the same chart up to approximately $2 per barrel.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Number 490                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. HOLT replied, not quite because the profit element is taxed at                                                              
both the state and the federal level, and therefore is split                                                                    
between the state taxes, federal taxes, and the earnings.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR TAYLOR indicated his interest in the numbers specific to                                                                
BP.  What percentage of BP's worldwide production has and is now                                                                
coming from Alaska?  He mentioned that he had been told 20 percent.                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. HOLT informed everyone that in terms of BP Amoco's worldwide                                                                
oil production, leaving out gas production, he believed it fell in                                                              
the range of 3 million barrels per day.  Alaska's production is on                                                              
the order of 400,000 divided by 3 million, which is 13 percent.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR TAYLOR indicated that he had estimated that a little                                                                    
higher.  With the addition of ARCO production, that would obviously                                                             
increase.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. HOLT said that the total increase, if the merger goes through,                                                              
since BP Amoco would receive ARCO's global production.  Therefore,                                                              
the $3 million increases to something just under $4 million while                                                               
the Alaska piece increases to about $575[,000].  Therefore, the                                                                 
ratio becomes $575[,000] divided by $4 million which results in                                                                 
about the same percentage.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR TAYLOR inquired as to what percentage of BP worldwide                                                                   
profit is due to Alaska production of oil.  He mentioned that he                                                                
had been told that it was almost double that amount, close to 30 or                                                             
40 percent of the overall profit.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR. HOLT agreed that the percentage of BP worldwide profit due to                                                               
Alaska production of oil is a function of the oil price.  When oil                                                              
prices are low, Alaska's profit contribution is low.  When viewed                                                               
in the overall relatively high cost of this state, the relative                                                                 
profit margin of barrels here compared to other places ranks Alaska                                                             
in the lower tier, the lower third.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN turned to the Charter.  If BP Amoco does not                                                               
receive an internal value for the leases and the divestitures, he                                                               
understood the Charter to mandate that "you" will do it.  Is that                                                               
BP Amoco's intention?                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. NOBLE and MR. CAMPBELL both answered yes.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN recalled the Governor recently saying that if                                                              
BP Amoco did not acquire ARCO, someone else will because ARCO can                                                               
no longer exist.  He asked if they believed that, under the current                                                             
oil price.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. CAMPBELL deferred that question to ARCO.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN noted that one of BP Amoco's Vice Presidents                                                               
from London was in his office and made that same statement.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Number 405                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR PEARCE returned to her concerns regarding investment in                                                                 
Alaska as she believed that is where Alaskans' support or                                                                       
opposition to the merger should lay, outside of the antitrust laws.                                                             
The Administration is saying that there is a negligible effect on                                                               
Alaska's revenues due to the merger, even though there are some                                                                 
fairly significant Alaskan cost savings that BP will receive from                                                               
the merger.  Senator Pearce commented that she would like see some                                                              
part of the savings return to the state in revenues, although the                                                               
Administration says that nothing more should be expected from "his"                                                             
Charter.  She explained that she is still stuck with regard to what                                                             
those investments will be because if the state cannot depend upon                                                               
more revenues coming from the current production base, then the                                                                 
state has to look to future investments as the only reason the                                                                  
proposed merger would be good for Alaska.  Senator Pearce inquired                                                              
as to how reducing production costs affect the decisions that are                                                               
made in London with regard to investments in other areas.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. HOLT explained that BP Amoco is organized in business units,                                                                
which are substantial pieces of business that run, in large part,                                                               
as independent businesses within a framework of common standards.                                                               
He informed the committee that he manages the North Slope business                                                              
unit.  The investment decision-making process begins with each                                                                  
business unit laying out the opportunity steps that are believed to                                                             
be attractive, based on the technical work.  He used Prudhoe Bay as                                                             
an example.  In the near term, Prudhoe Bay looks like additional                                                                
in-field drilling and development of some of the satellite                                                                      
accumulations around the Prudhoe Bay field.  The economic                                                                       
attractiveness of that opportunity is reviewed and the cash-flow                                                                
and reservoir models are run in order to determine the possible                                                                 
benefit streams from drilling more wells and the costs that would                                                               
result as well as the economics.  Based on the opportunity step, it                                                             
will be determined how much should be spent.  At this point, Mr.                                                                
Holt would then meet with a group of peers, business unit leaders                                                               
from other parts of the U.S. and the world, who review the                                                                      
collection of business units in order to see how the opportunity                                                                
steps compare.  Judgements are made with regard to how much of the                                                              
total opportunity set should be supported and then a pitch is made                                                              
to executive management.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. HOLT turned to the cost savings of the proposed merger.  For                                                                
example, if the lifting costs in Prudhoe Bay can be reduced through                                                             
the merger, there will be more individual wells that pass economic                                                              
hurdles, and thus more drilling opportunities at Prudhoe Bay. The                                                               
cost to produce oil will have decreased not only for them, but for                                                              
their partners, as well.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
He explained that they use the same economic measures to put these                                                              
opportunity sets in the same sort of framework.  He gets challenged                                                             
by some of his peers to test out the quality of their opportunity                                                               
set versus another and form a view as to how much capital they want                                                             
to make a pitch for and they make the pitch; generally getting what                                                             
they ask for.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR PEARCE said as a result of the merger, she would imagine                                                                
the numbers of people he would have to meet with has expanded,                                                                  
because there are more opportunities.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. HOLT agreed that both the opportunity set and the capital                                                                   
available increase as a result of the BP Amoco merger.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR PEARCE said she thought it was fair to say that the lion's                                                              
share of capital expenditures up here on exploration and                                                                        
development are made by BP Amoco or ARCO.  She asked how much has                                                               
the competitive factor in the past three years in Alaska, as he has                                                             
gone to London to ask to invest money in Alaska, been a stimulus to                                                             
the investment decisions because of competition.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. NOBLE answered that the value of the opportunity is what drives                                                             
the capital that is available.  The opportunity has always been in                                                              
Alaska; they do not bid above what an opportunity is worth.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR PEARCE said she is trying to figure out if the Board really                                                             
looked at the competition in Alaska or at BP opportunity and is it                                                              
important to competitors on the North Slope.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. NOBLE answered that he thought much had been made of                                                                        
competition in an analysis which treats Alaska like we have three                                                               
or four "widget factories" competing to sell widgets.  But in his                                                               
view, oil and gas production is a dramatically different business.                                                              
The upstream end of it has not been the subject of anti-trust                                                                   
analysis in the past.  It's been where the consumers are with the                                                               
gas stations and refineries.  This has been partly because Alaska's                                                             
laws mandates competition.  For example once you get a lease, you                                                               
don't compete with each other to drill wells next to each other.                                                                
The State requires you to for the maximum production of that asset,                                                             
to develop that jointly in an intelligent way.  When they talk                                                                  
about competition, it has very different effect in the upstream and                                                             
downstream markets.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. NOBLE rhetorically asked if the State benefits from diversity                                                               
of views and said he thought it did.  He asked if it benefited from                                                             
having a configuration which allows to compete globally for capital                                                             
in various markets around the world and he answered he thought it                                                               
did.  But then he asked, is it a function of the number of players                                                              
there are up here and he didn't think it was.  He thought that we                                                               
are much better off with an intelligent configuration of companies                                                              
that can keep costs low and develop resources than with having lots                                                             
of folks running around claiming they are competitors.  He thought                                                              
the conversation about competition on the North Slope was misplaced                                                             
and misfocused.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Number 260                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR PEARCE asked if competition isn't a factor, should Alaskans                                                             
expect that there will be an increase in investment in Alaska                                                                   
because of the merger and the Charter and a sale of some of the                                                                 
assets to what is maybe a big company (at least aggressive), should                                                             
we see more or less investments than we would have seen with BP and                                                             
ARCO.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. NOBLE answered that he believed we would see more.  He believes                                                             
what Mr. Holt says about the "virtuous cycle."  He believes the                                                                 
economics of the North Slope; a very large pool very far from                                                                   
market with very high fixed costs.  You need large amounts of                                                                   
production just to keep face load up, the state it's in right now.                                                              
Now, if you can lower costs, just by new investments, you will                                                                  
attract new investments, not just from BP, but from the new                                                                     
participants.  You cycle up with more production and he thought                                                                 
that was where to go, although he couldn't guarantee anything.  He                                                              
said the State was in the same position Mr. Holt was in.  You have                                                              
to pick your best horse and ride with it.  You don't always know                                                                
what's going to happen.   BP has worked for the last 40 years to                                                                
prove it's the best horse up here and he believes it is the best                                                                
horse.  The merger will make it a better horse.  We'd better get on                                                             
it.  He predicted an explosion of growth on the North Slope and an                                                              
extension of those fields.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR PEARCE asked why BP was not willing to commit to some                                                                   
number of investment over the next five years.  There should be                                                                 
some number they could commit to make Alaskans feel more                                                                        
comfortable about this.  The public is scared and she needs to tell                                                             
them some good reason why they should believe in it, that it's good                                                             
for Alaska.  It's clear that it's not revenues to the State.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. CAMPBELL responded that they would increase revenues to the                                                                 
State by increasing production.  They plan to make more money with                                                              
the merger. The Commissioner of Revenue said the way to increase                                                                
revenues was to increase production.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR PEARCE retorted that he showed how the State would get less                                                             
money with increased production.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. NOBLE explained the revenue note as he understood it, made an                                                               
assumption of no increased production.  BP has said there will be                                                               
more production.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Number 220                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR PEARCE said she didn't understand why they would not commit                                                             
to a dollar figure.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. CAMPBELL said they were willing to make a commitment on the                                                                 
basis of defined assets.  Today they don't know what the asset set                                                              
is going to be.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. NOBLE added once you go down divestiture route, which had a lot                                                             
of support in Alaska, until you get the exact assets in place, you                                                              
can't say for sure.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN asked on page 22 they ask that the new parties                                                             
will be fully integrated in Alaska and wanted to know if that meant                                                             
in the sense of the corporate structure they would be all the way                                                               
from producer to marketer in Alaska or some other meaning.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. HOLT answered that all he meant that they would have interest                                                               
in the whole upstream chain - exploration acreage, producing                                                                    
fields, pipeline ownership.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN reference Commissioner Shively's December 13th                                                             
letter and a provision in the Kuparuk River Unit about preferential                                                             
right of first refusal and that he could potentially disapprove of                                                              
the signing.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. NOBLE said it was premature to say anything about at this                                                                   
point.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Number 156                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN said on page 24 they indicate there is a                                                                   
common occurance of sharing of facilities and certainly in drilling                                                             
exploratory wells.  He didn't recall any agreements for operators                                                               
coming on later and asked if they thought there would be anything                                                               
different for an operator coming later who wasn't in on the                                                                     
original installation.  How much would he be charged, for instance.                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. HOLT answered that the best examples of facility sharing                                                                    
agreements are between satellite owners and the old existing field                                                              
owners.  These agreements are being negotiated all the time and                                                                 
there are over 30 of them now.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN said on page 26 BP and ARCO agree with the                                                                 
State to make gas available at an acceptable price to viable                                                                    
projects and asked what that meant.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. HOLT replied that there were a lot of comments on a specified                                                               
price for the gas in the first draft and that was deleted and                                                                   
replaced with words like "commercially reasonable, fair market, to                                                              
be mutually agreed between three sets of parties," the parties                                                                  
being BP, ARCO, and the State.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. NOBLE added that the Charter contains a definition of a                                                                     
qualifying project in there as well.  If the project can obtain                                                                 
project construction financing, provide reasonable financial                                                                    
security with respect to a take or pay contract, and can obtain the                                                             
necessary approvals from other fields.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN said the third box on page 28 says energy                                                                  
companies must continue to merge to achieve a scale necessary in                                                                
invest in the largest scale projects without sacrificing portfolio.                                                             
He asked if that threw a wet blanket on smaller independent                                                                     
companies.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. NOBLE said he believed the scale on the North Slope is such                                                                 
that it needs at least one critical mass investor.  Once that's in                                                              
place, there's room for all sorts of participants who can pick an                                                               
opportunity set that, in effect, increases the pie.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Number 90                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA asked about long-term contracts.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. NOBLE answered that he really couldn't because his group                                                                    
focused on the Alaska end of it and another group is focused on                                                                 
those.  He read in the paper they have been announced to the                                                                    
public.  He said he would find out and let her know.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked if $140 million was saved every year and if                                                              
did apply to the total combined production of ARCO and BP, it looks                                                             
like that would represent something less than $.50 per barrel.  If                                                              
that's the exercise, it's frustrating to know this occurs with that                                                             
effort when the price of oil is fluctuating and moving so much.                                                                 
It's a third of our severance tax, it's a third of our royalty;                                                                 
it's pretty small numbers in terms of a per barrel comparison.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Number 23                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. HOLT responded that he has been living that frustration for a                                                               
much smaller target on a per barrel basis.  Much smaller targets                                                                
than that have been the driving force behind his organization for                                                               
a number of years.  Fifty cents a barrel in the context of oil                                                                  
price swings seems small, but he emphasized that most companies                                                                 
actually make their investment decisions on what they perceive to                                                               
be an average price.  The ignore the swings for the most part in                                                                
terms of making large investment decisions.  Given that, if you can                                                             
reduce the cost base by 50 or 60 cents on the auspices of an                                                                    
assumed average oil price.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 00-06, SIDE A                                                                                                              
Number 001                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR LEMAN asked if Mr. Holt could provide a category breakdown                                                              
of the $140 million cost savings so that legislators could see                                                                  
where the savings accrue.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. HOLT responded that there is no detailed breakdown but he could                                                             
provide notional areas where they expect the costs savings to come                                                              
from and he would get that information to the committee if no                                                                   
confidentiality problems exist. He added there are a number of                                                                  
identifiable things, one being overhead costs in Anchorage.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALFORD thanked the BP Amoco panel for their                                                                           
participation.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Number 96                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
KEVIN MEYERS, President of ARCO Alaska, stated what drove ARCO to                                                               
approach BP was not the financial viability of ARCO, it was that                                                                
ARCO felt the merger would be in the best interest of its                                                                       
shareholders, ARCO employees over the long term, and for the                                                                    
communities ARCO serves.  If the merger were not to happen, there                                                               
would be changes--it would not be the ARCO of 1999.  Mr. Meyers                                                                 
said he doesn't know what the changes would be, but costs would                                                                 
continue to be reduced, ARCO would continue to focus its operations                                                             
worldwide, and the organizational structure would probably change.                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked what the current plan would be, with regard                                                              
to expenditures for this fiscal year, and where ARCO is in that                                                                 
plan process.  He also asked Mr. Meyers what Alaska can expect from                                                             
ARCO, as a contingency plan, while the process continues.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. MEYERS responded that every year ARCO goes through a planning                                                               
process and puts an operating plan together for that year and the                                                               
subsequent three years and, in the long range, a ten year period.                                                               
ARCO finalized one of those plans in January 1999, just before the                                                              
merger was announced in April.  ARCO implemented that plan through                                                              
1999 - last year ARCO spent about $535 million in Alaska, half of                                                               
which was spent on Alpine.  ARCO will continue to implement that                                                                
plan this year.  He offered to furnish the committee with actual                                                                
numbers for the 2000 plan when he returns from a trip to Los                                                                    
Angeles but he pointed out the levels of expenditure are consistent                                                             
with the operating plan that was put into place a year ago and they                                                             
are consistent with the levels that were spent last year.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked if the amount is in the neighborhood of half                                                             
a billion dollars.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR. MEYERS response was yes.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Number 132                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN asked Mr. Meyers if he envisions that the                                                                  
timing would also be according to ARCO's one, two or three year                                                                 
plan.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. MEYERS responded that ARCO would keep implementing according to                                                             
that plan so that the key activities that were in place will                                                                    
continue.  Alpine has always been scheduled for a third quarter                                                                 
start up and that start up is on schedule.  Alpine will be a                                                                    
significant part of the investment.  ARCO plans to drill a number                                                               
of exploration wells this year, several will be in NPRA.  Point                                                                 
Matthew(ph) projects would be set up in the first or second quarter                                                             
of this year.  These projects are ongoing and will continue to be                                                               
implemented.  The potential merger is impacting the long lead                                                                   
items. Future projects and new plans are not being developed                                                                    
because it is not known who the partners will be.  Mr. Meyers                                                                   
expressed concern about what will happen with long term plans. Part                                                             
of the difficulty is determining who their partners will be and                                                                 
what the partner's perspective will be.  ARCO planned to run two                                                                
seismic crews this year but because of some of the uncertainty                                                                  
surrounding ARCO's exploration acreage, it's been difficult to                                                                  
agree on how to fund those and to find partners so ARCO will                                                                    
probably only run one crew.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Number 174                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR PEARCE asked if the downturn that was experienced in the                                                                
fourth quarter of this year would have happened anyway.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. MEYERS answered that the plan ARCO has been following was                                                                   
predicated on a gradual return of oil prices more indicative of the                                                             
normal.  That plan was put together in December of 1998 and January                                                             
of 1999.  The plan assumed that oil prices would be back to normal-                                                             
-oil prices are above that now.  Additional activity could be                                                                   
anticipated in response to that oil price.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR PEARCE stated that in December, 1999, the Governor and                                                                  
others made a case that not having a decision on the merger was                                                                 
having an impact on the number of rigs operating on the North Slope                                                             
and the amount of work going on.  She said it sounds like that was                                                              
not true, at least for ARCO.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. MEYERS responded that this is not a black and white issue.  The                                                             
industry has not responded as strongly as it would have, going from                                                             
$9.00 to in excess of $20.00 so there was clearly not as much                                                                   
activity but, on the other hand, ARCO has continued to execute the                                                              
plan that was in place.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Number 242                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR PHILLIPS commented that he spoke with several ARCO                                                                      
employees this fall who expressed reservations about the merger.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. MEYERS responded that as an Alaskan, an ARCO employee and as an                                                             
oil field industry person, he has found himself torn on the issue                                                               
but, when he looks at the economics of the issue which is what is                                                               
important to Alaska, the merger is the right answer.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALFORD thanked Mr. Meyers for his presentation and                                                                    
welcomed the speakers from the Administration.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Number 305                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. JACK GRIFFIN, Assistant Attorney General from Anchorage,                                                                    
introduced some of the consultants who assisted members of the                                                                  
Governor's cabinet review team to determine an appropriate set of                                                               
remedies.  Mr. Griffin said the group's principle point is that the                                                             
Charter protects the public interest in maximizing total future                                                                 
North Slope production in two ways.  First, it attempts to capture                                                              
the efficiencies and benefits that the public would see at Prudhoe                                                              
Bay as a consequence of the merger.  Second, it adopts the                                                                      
competitive paradigm for future North Slope leasing and bidding.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL GRIFFIN continued.  There are several                                                                
points to remember about the public interests and the government's                                                              
role in evaluating the contract that these two companies                                                                        
voluntarily entered.  ARCO went to BP Amoco, it wasn't the other                                                                
way around.  This is not a situation in which one company is                                                                    
attempting to do something that we disagree with and that perhaps                                                               
other companies disagree with.  It is also important to know the                                                                
market reaction to what ARCO did, and what BP Amoco and ARCO agreed                                                             
to do, was overwhelmingly positive.  The market saw the same                                                                    
benefits to this transaction that the companies did, and the                                                                    
shareholders of those companies agreed.  The State is not in the                                                                
same position as the either companies, the shareholders or the                                                                  
market.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL GRIFFIN discussed some of the issues the                                                             
Administration saw when it first looked at the merger.  It saw                                                                  
benefits at Prudhoe Bay.  There was no public interest that                                                                     
supported keeping BP Amoco and ARCO as "competitors" at Prudhoe                                                                 
Bay.  Everyone agreed that one operator is sufficient to operate at                                                             
Prudhoe Bay and BP believes other benefits would result at Prudhoe                                                              
Bay from rationalizing the disparate interests in the oil rim and                                                               
the gas cap.  From  the Administration's perspective, those                                                                     
benefits were undisputed and could increase production at Prudhoe                                                               
Bay by lowering some of the barriers to some of the incremental                                                                 
investment decisions that happened in that field.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL GRIFFIN noted that wasn't the only real                                                              
benefit from the merger; the Administration also saw potential                                                                  
benefits that were talked about by BP Amoco earlier.  There was a                                                               
very real possibility for an increase in production attributable to                                                             
the $5 billion dollars BP was willing to commit to spend over the                                                               
next five years.  Also, BP's argument about the efficiency that                                                                 
could be gained across the North Slope by having just one operator                                                              
and lowering the overall cost base was substantial. Those                                                                       
efficiencies would increase the ultimate production from the North                                                              
Slope. That argument was not lightly disregarded.  The                                                                          
Administration agreed that there were substantial benefits to                                                                   
Alaskans in capturing the efficiencies and rationalizations of                                                                  
interests at Prudhoe, and given that had not occurred for over 25                                                               
years despite repeated efforts, it became a proposition for the                                                                 
Administration's team to evaluate the anti-competitive effect of                                                                
the merger outside of Prudhoe Bay and to evaluate whether the                                                                   
benefits of one operator at the North Slope outweighed the benefit                                                              
of a competitive environment.  The Administration's team felt it                                                                
was necessary to take a very long term view of the merger and with                                                              
that view, it felt opting for a competitive solution for future                                                                 
North Slope leasing was a better approach than having a single low-                                                             
cost operator.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Once that decision was reached, the question became, how can new                                                                
competitors be created to replicate what ARCO's anticipated                                                                     
activities would have been in the future for new lease sales.  To                                                               
answer that question, the Administration's team went to the players                                                             
in the industry.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Oil companies gave four essential answers to what it would take for                                                             
them to be interested in Alaska and what it would take for them to                                                              
be competitive in Alaska. The information is reflected in the                                                                   
specific terms in the Charter.  First, they would need to have an                                                               
existing and substantial base of production and you need to be an                                                               
operator.  Second, a company would need to be an operator. A non-                                                               
operator would fall into a category of disinterested observer and                                                               
collector of revenues from the State and that is what the team did                                                              
not want to capture.  Third, a company must be integrated and have                                                              
some of the infrastructure to take the oil from the producing field                                                             
to the point you are going to dispose of it.  Fourth, companies                                                                 
must have good prospects for exploration. The Charter has                                                                       
accomplished those goals and creates a structure that will provide                                                              
the best opportunity to maximize the North Slope production.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Number 492                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. DAVID BOIES informed committee members that he looked at the                                                                
merger from the perspective of the antitrust issues and, in this                                                                
case, how to balance the efficiencies that a merger will obtain.                                                                
Almost every merger has some potential efficiencies associated with                                                             
it as well as potential competitive problems.  In doing that                                                                    
analysis, the relevant markets of concern need to be analyzed.  The                                                             
concern, from an antitrust standpoint, is competition within a                                                                  
particular market or markets.  When looking at potential                                                                        
competitive problems, it is important to keep in mind the market of                                                             
concern.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. BOIES explained that his focus was on the upstream market                                                                   
because if there is going to be an adverse competitive impact on                                                                
the State of Alaska, that is where the impact would be felt.  Of                                                                
particular concern was a potential problem for the markets for                                                                  
bidding and leasing properties on the North Slope and, to some                                                                  
extent, the possibilities of competition for exploration of                                                                     
properties once they had been leased.  The latter has a much more                                                               
attenuated effect because the latter is going to be driven more by                                                              
world market conditions than by the number of operators or holders                                                              
of those resources on Alaska's North Slope.  The extent to which a                                                              
company has development rights in particular properties and to                                                                  
which a company tends to develop those rights is going to be a                                                                  
function of how those values and costs of doing that exploration                                                                
compare to the cost and terms of exploration and development in                                                                 
other areas of the world.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. BOIES pointed out that diminutive competition for bids for                                                                  
leases was of concern.  The number of viable bidders could have an                                                              
effect on bids and leases because of the importance of lease prices                                                             
and payments to the State of Alaska.  From an antitrust                                                                         
perspective, the extent to which the merger will cause a diminution                                                             
in competition for leases raises an antitrust problem is                                                                        
complicated because the antitrust laws are designed to promote                                                                  
consumer welfare.  A diminution of competition for leases may or                                                                
may not adversely affect consumer welfare therefore an argument can                                                             
be developed to say diminution of competition could actually reduce                                                             
prices for consumers.  Mr. Boies said he doesn't believe that                                                                   
argument is well taken but the complications that are inherent in                                                               
that argument had to be taken into account in assessing the                                                                     
litigation risk if they were going to attempt to bring an antitrust                                                             
action.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. BOIES stated the thing to assess in antitrust litigation is                                                                 
one's prospects for winning or losing, because that affects                                                                     
settlement leverage.   The litigation risk had to be taken into                                                                 
account to assess the value of the case.  The Administration's team                                                             
also had to assess the "relative few precedent" regarding what                                                                  
precedents exist for a state actually being successful in bringing                                                              
its own action to court and getting an injunction.   In a number of                                                             
cases, states raised issues on mergers and worked out a settlement,                                                             
but there are few cases in which a state litigated a matter and                                                                 
succeeded in getting an injunction against the merger.  That was                                                                
likely to be the case in the BP Amoco and ARCO merger, and despite                                                              
its very significant impact to the State of Alaska, the state's                                                                 
aspect was only one part of the merger.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. BOIES indicated that one background fact he kept in mind during                                                             
the antitrust analysis was where the potential competitive problems                                                             
were, and also what the realistic expectations were in achieving                                                                
the desired result in court if we were not able to achieve that                                                                 
result in negotiations.   To do that, he thought a potential                                                                    
participant would have to have a certain degree of existing                                                                     
production.  Second, a potential participant would need certain                                                                 
integrated transportation rights so that its incremental costs, as                                                              
opposed to the fully distributed costs that it would pay if the                                                                 
participant was simply a user of the transportation facility.                                                                   
Third, he thought it was important that a potential participant                                                                 
have operating rights and, fourth, that the participant have a                                                                  
substantial portfolio of exploration leases to provide incentives                                                               
and the scope and scale to operate efficiently.  The team attempted                                                             
to address each of those four points in the Charter.  The team                                                                  
believes the Charter is a reasonable response to the potential                                                                  
competitive problems and that it is preferable to litigation. This                                                              
approach enabled the team to maintain the efficiencies and benefits                                                             
to the State that would result from the merger, and the team was                                                                
able to achieve a solution as good, and perhaps better, than the                                                                
State would have likely achieved in antitrust litigation.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 00-06, SIDE B                                                                                                              
Number 584                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. BOIES' last point was that the Charter as the form of the                                                                   
settlement does not differ from a judgment approach if a dispute                                                                
arises regarding whether the terms have been followed.  In either                                                               
case, the State will have to go to court and establish that the                                                                 
terms were not followed.  In a regulatory context, a judgment has                                                               
the advantage of providing for a remedy of contempt which tends to                                                              
discourage the defendant from drawing too fine a line in terms of                                                               
its performance.  That is not likely to be a problem where you have                                                             
a concrete step like divesting a particular quantity of acres, or                                                               
divesting certain ownership shares in feeder pipeline or in TAPS,                                                               
or divesting a particular quantity of barrels per day of                                                                        
production.  The form of the remedy is not a non-issue because had                                                              
it been done another way, the effect would not have been materially                                                             
different.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked when Mr. Boies referred to settlement                                                                    
leverage with regard to going to court, whether he was talking                                                                  
about a state going into state court, or the state being involved                                                               
in a federal court action in conjunction with the FTC.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Number 555                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. BOIES said he was referring to either because the state has the                                                             
option of going to state court under Alaska law or going into                                                                   
federal court under the federal antitrust laws.  The federal courts                                                             
have exclusive jurisdiction over the federal antitrust laws, so if                                                              
the state were to assert a claim under the federal antitrust laws                                                               
it would have to be in federal court.  Regardless of the forum                                                                  
selected, the issue would not be materially different in terms of                                                               
the relative lack of precedence for a state achieving a litigated                                                               
successful result of enjoining the merger.  That is something the                                                               
court, particularly in large national or multi-national mergers,                                                                
will tend to defer to the federal antitrust enforcement agencies,                                                               
and those agencies will tend to take the lead role in determining                                                               
any remedy.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked Mr. Boies when he referred to the antitrust                                                              
as designed to promote consumer welfare, whether the state is a                                                                 
consumer of the development services of the industry in returning                                                               
a revenue for the state's natural resources.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. BOIES said that it could be in one sense, but it probably is                                                                
not in another sense.  To the extent that the state, as the owner                                                               
of certain resources or having ownership interests in certain                                                                   
resources, has consumed services like transportation services, the                                                              
state might be considered a consumer.  However, where the state is                                                              
lessor of hydrocarbon leases, the state would not be considered a                                                               
consumer, the state would be considered a supplier of a factor of                                                               
production.  Suppliers of factors of production are not irrelevant                                                              
under the antitrust laws because conduct that adversely affects                                                                 
them can, in turn, adversely affect consumers under certain                                                                     
circumstances.  In this instance, the state has an interest in                                                                  
competition among bidders because that will drive up the price that                                                             
the state is paid.  The price increase, to the extent it has an                                                                 
effect on consumer prices, which for a whole variety of reasons                                                                 
given conditions in the international oil market, is a matter of a                                                              
lot of complexity and question.  To the extent it has any effect,                                                               
that effect is going to be adverse to the consumer, not in                                                                      
promoting the consumer, unless you were to tie the lack of                                                                      
competition into a lack of actually developing leases once they                                                                 
were let.  In general, consumers have an interest in factors of                                                                 
production being priced as low as possible, as long as the price is                                                             
not so low that supply drops below an optimum level.  With respect                                                              
to these leases, it is hard to make a case that the consumer is at                                                              
harm, unless one argued that fewer leases would be available, as                                                                
opposed to the state getting less for the leases that were made                                                                 
available for bid.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Number 502                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALFORD said he was thinking in terms of all the costs of                                                              
production, transportation and so on, that are deducted from the                                                                
wellhead value.  Those costs drive up the price and drive down the                                                              
value at the same time.  He asked if the state and the consumer are                                                             
really on the same side of the issue.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. BOIES said they are.  For example, if this merger were viewed                                                               
as having a likely effect of increasing pricing power with respect                                                              
to charges that would be imposed on the TAPS pipeline, you would                                                                
have a different question than the one being analyzed.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Number 482                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA asked Mr. Boies' to clarify his last                                                                    
statement.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. BOIES said one of the things the team focused on was to try to                                                              
ensure that an alternative operator on the North Slope would have                                                               
access as an owner to transportation so that they would be paying                                                               
in effect the incremental cost and not the cost that they would be                                                              
paying if they simply approached it as a customer of the pipeline.                                                              
The team concluded that the divestiture achieved in the Charter                                                                 
would solve that problem.  Had that problem not been solved, a                                                                  
potential alternative operator on the North Slope might say it is                                                               
a competitive disadvantage to one of the incumbents.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA asked if that is the reasoning for all four                                                             
areas - to be certain that you have someone that is vertically                                                                  
integrated and able to compete?                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. BOIES said yes.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA asked why the vertical integration is                                                                   
important ultimately.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MR. BOIES said if you want to have an operator or company on the                                                                
North Slope that is going to be an effective bidder for leases, you                                                             
want someone who has a cost structure that will make it practical                                                               
for them to be an effective bidder.  You want them to have a scope                                                              
and scale that will be efficient, you want them to have integrated                                                              
access to transportation, and you want them to have the kinds of                                                                
things provided in the Charter so they can be an effective and cost                                                             
efficient operator because it is their ability to be cost efficient                                                             
that will give them both the incentive and the strength to be a                                                                 
plausible bidder for leases.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA agreed with Mr. Boies' statement.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Number 452                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN asked Mr. Boies if he considered the fact that                                                             
all North Slope production is from State land which is shared                                                                   
equally among all the residents of the State, as opposed to Texas                                                               
where the leases are owned by individuals.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. BOIES replied the issue is whether it is owned by the State or                                                              
owned by individuals.  Hydrocarbons are a factor of production.                                                                 
From the standpoint of the State of Alaska, as the owner of                                                                     
substantial hydrocarbon reserves, the State of Alaska has a fiscal                                                              
interest in getting a good return for that asset, just as a state                                                               
that owns a lot of timberland has an interest in getting a high                                                                 
price for lumber.  That is not really an antitrust concern.  The                                                                
antitrust laws are not designed to get a good or even fair return                                                               
for producers.  The antitrust laws are designed to get consumers                                                                
the lowest possible price.  In effect, the antitrust laws are                                                                   
designed to drive down the price that owners of productive assets                                                               
have.  To the extent that the productive assets require renewing                                                                
capital investments, one doesn't want to drive it down to a point                                                               
where optimal investment becomes unprofitable.  When the resource                                                               
is hydrocarbon in the ground, and the question is how much you are                                                              
going to be paid for those hydrocarbons, the antitrust laws want to                                                             
pay you as little as possible to reduce the price to consumers.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Number 420                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN said Alaska is different because we are                                                                    
upstream. He asked if you carry that concept to the ridiculous and                                                              
assume that there is absolutely no profit on the upstream side                                                                  
because the price was driven so low to benefit consumers in some                                                                
other state, whether Mr. Boies would consider that an adverse                                                                   
situation from an antitrust perspective.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. BOIES said it would not be an adverse antitrust problem.  It                                                                
would be a matter of great concern to the State of Alaska and it                                                                
would be something the State of Alaska would have an interest in                                                                
trying to counter.  OPEC's desire is to attempt to stabilize and                                                                
improve the price of hydrocarbons to the producing states. If that                                                              
took place in the United States by private parties, it would be a                                                               
violation of the antitrust laws.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked about the State royalty oil barrels and                                                                  
transportation.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. BOIES said one can argue that the State is a consumer of the                                                                
transportation resource.  It is a consumer, in the sense of a                                                                   
purchaser.  When antitrust laws refer to consumers, they are                                                                    
talking about the ultimate consumer.  To the extent that a person,                                                              
state or entity in the production chain is a purchaser of goods or                                                              
services, the antitrust laws are interested in the purchaser to the                                                             
extent that what happens to that person, state or entity will                                                                   
affect ultimate consumers.  Another issue that the FTC is currently                                                             
grappling with in connection to this merger is whether this merger                                                              
will affect gasoline prices on the West Coast.  That is unlikely                                                                
because such prices are determined by world market prices.  One of                                                              
the things the FTC is looking at is whether one could consider the                                                              
refineries as protected consumers under the antitrust laws.  They                                                               
would have to prove that there would be an affect on the price of                                                               
the crude oil.  Even, if that was true, the legal issue of whether                                                              
those refineries are really protected consumers under the antitrust                                                             
laws remains.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked if the refinery is designed to handle                                                                    
Alaskan crude oil and a change to that design would cost money, and                                                             
the refiner decides to pay the difference in the premium to avoid                                                               
making refinery changes, whether the refiner would be considered a                                                              
consumer.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Number 344                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. BOIES said in the very short-term, it is probably the case that                                                             
there can be differentials in pricing.  That is true for                                                                        
commodities generally.  There are a wide variety of reasons why                                                                 
commodities are not priced uniformly, and some of those may be                                                                  
differences in terms of the cost that would be required to make a                                                               
short-term adjustment.  A particular refiner might pay an upper and                                                             
lower range expressed in a few cents for any particular kind of                                                                 
crude oil, including ANS crude oil, depending on the refiner.  You                                                              
have to accept that as something that happens in the real world.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WHITAKER asked to hear more about downstream issues.                                                             
                                                                                                                                
ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL GRIFFIN stated the press has reported                                                                
that the FTC is concerned that the merger benefits Alaska at the                                                                
expense of people at the pump in California.  He noted Dr.                                                                      
Leitzinger has some information on that.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked where that information came from because he                                                              
hadn't heard that.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL GRIFFIN said he didn't know who leaked                                                               
the information, but the leak was that FTC staff was advocating to                                                              
the Commission that this merger would raise the price of gasoline                                                               
in California.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked if this is supposed to have come from the                                                                
FTC.                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR. GRIFFIN said it is alleged to have come from the FTC staff in                                                               
a paper they prepared urging the commission to take a particular                                                                
action.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Number 344                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
DR. JEFFREY LEITZINGER, President of EconOne Research, made the                                                                 
following statements.  He has spent much of his career looking at                                                               
ANS market issues, and much of that on behalf of the State of                                                                   
Alaska.  The issue the FTC is looking at is whether the merger will                                                             
result in higher ANS prices on the West Coast, whether that will                                                                
lead to higher crude oil prices generally on the West Coast and                                                                 
then higher gasoline prices.  Based on 15 years of looking at ANS                                                               
market conditions, he does not see how either of those effects will                                                             
result from this merger.  His conclusion is based on three reasons.                                                             
First, the crude oil market prices today are set by world market                                                                
price conditions - by the cost of bringing imported crude to the                                                                
West Coast.  Changes in ANS output or prices are not going to                                                                   
affect West Coast crude oil price levels.  Changes will only affect                                                             
how much ANS is used on the West Coast versus foreign crude.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALFORD said there will be no impact at all on the West                                                                
Coast based on increases or decreases in ANS production.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Number 278                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
DR. LEITZINGER said yes, the West Coast today is very different                                                                 
today than it was five or ten years ago when there was surplus ANS                                                              
production.  Because of the export ban, the market that people                                                                  
looked to for ANS was the West Coast.  At that time, ANS had backed                                                             
off the West Coast and just about all of the imports that were                                                                  
available to substitute for ANS.  ANS became the price setting                                                                  
crude oil.  It was absolutely the case ten years ago, that when you                                                             
change the amount of ANS you tried to sell on the West Coast, it                                                                
had an effect on the West Coast crude oil prices.  What happened as                                                             
a result of the decline in ANS production, and in some parts                                                                    
because of the relaxation of the export ban, is in the mid-1990's                                                               
there was no longer enough ANS crude oil to supply demands in West                                                              
Coast refineries.  What had been a small stream of imports, which                                                               
came into the West Coast for purposes of blending and increasing                                                                
average quality of California crude oil, had now become a veritable                                                             
flood of imports.  Five years ago about 200,000 barrels a day of                                                                
imported crude oil was brought into the West Coast, this year there                                                             
will probably be close to 600,000 barrels a day.  That is about 25                                                              
percent of what West Coast refiners demand.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
DR. LEITZINGER continued.  The importance of that is not just the                                                               
25 percent, but it is the 70 million barrel a day world market,                                                                 
with six million barrels a day of excess capacity.  In his view, if                                                             
an ANS producer were to attempt to raise West Coast crude oil                                                                   
prices by holding back output, which is the mechanism used by a                                                                 
firm with market power, the West Coast refiners will simply                                                                     
substitute imports to take the place of ANS.  In the last two or                                                                
three years, ANS production has fallen off and more imports are                                                                 
coming in to take its place, but the relationship of ANS prices to                                                              
import prices has stayed the same.  The 200,000 barrel decline of                                                               
ANS supplies to the West Coast over the past several years has had                                                              
no discernable impact on ANS prices as compared with foreign                                                                    
prices.  His point is that the West Coast is now driven by                                                                      
worldwide market conditions and changes in ANS volume or any                                                                    
efforts to raise prices are simply not going to succeed.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked if any refineries on the West Coast run 100                                                              
percent ANS crude oil.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
DR. LEITZINGER replied yes, the two ARCO refineries are running                                                                 
virtually 100 percent ANS crude oil, and he believes that EXXON's                                                               
Benicia refinery is also running 100 percent ANS crude oil.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked if there was any cost for conversion.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Number 223                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
DR. LEITZINGER answered no.  ARCO's refineries are especially                                                                   
suited to run ANS, and if ARCO were to try to change that to run                                                                
foreign crude oil, there would be significant cost.  The reason why                                                             
that fact doesn't mean you can raise prices on the West Coast is                                                                
that the problem is the West Coast is a refining market of 2.4                                                                  
million barrels a day.  The ARCO and the EXXON refineries together                                                              
use about 500 thousand barrels a day, maybe a little more.  There                                                               
is another 1.5 million barrels a day in refineries on the West                                                                  
Coast that readily use imported crude oil, so a large part of the                                                               
market will readily switch to foreign crude.  Even if you were to                                                               
try and target a particular refiner who, because of its                                                                         
configuration, couldn't switch with the high price, because there                                                               
is that other large volume of crude oil coming to the West Coast,                                                               
they would just buy it from one of the other refiners.  If you                                                                  
wanted to put the squeeze on those few refineries that are ANS                                                                  
specific, you would have to pull all the rest of the ANS off of the                                                             
West Coast.  It will not be in a company's best interest to do that                                                             
because the West Coast is too important as a market.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
DR. LEITZINGER explained the second reason for his conclusion is                                                                
that he doesn't believe the merger will increase BP's ability or                                                                
incentive to try and increase prices on the West Coast.  The                                                                    
Charter will reduce BP's position as a net seller of crude oil on                                                               
the West Coast.  To the extent that volume is a measure of a                                                                    
company's size and importance, it's going to make BP less important                                                             
on the West Coast because, as a result of the merger, while BP will                                                             
obtain ARCO's crude oil volume, BP is also going to be obtaining                                                                
ARCO's refineries, which today consume more crude oil than ARCO                                                                 
produces.  The estimates are that about 50 thousand barrels a day                                                               
of the supply that BP used to sell on the West Coast to third                                                                   
parties will be needed to feed ARCO's refineries.  That is 50                                                                   
thousand that BP used to sell that won't be there.  In addition,                                                                
the Charter will mean another 175,000 barrels a day in BP                                                                       
production will go to two other parties who will either use or                                                                  
market that oil on their own.  The net result, from BP Amoco's                                                                  
standpoint, is that 225,000 barrels of oil which it used to sell on                                                             
the West Coast, is now going into their own refinery or to other                                                                
parties to market.  That volume is going to disappear from BP's                                                                 
sales business as a result of the merger, and equals a little over                                                              
50 percent of the total volume it has to sell.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked about long-term contracts for another                                                                    
200,000 barrels, and how that relates to all of this.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
DR. LEITZINGER replied BP sells about 400 thousand barrels a day on                                                             
the West Coast today.  Two-hundred-twenty-five-thousand barrels of                                                              
that is going to disappear because of the merger.  It is going into                                                             
the ARCO refinery and it is going through the Charter to two other                                                              
sellers.  BP has committed to sell 100,000 barrels of the remaining                                                             
200,000 barrels a day under long-term contracts.   That should act                                                              
to reduce any concern that BP Amoco after the merger might somehow                                                              
try and pull back output.  They have already shrunk the amount of                                                               
output they have to sell by over half, and half of what remains BP                                                              
has now committed to sell under long-term contracts.  It is really                                                              
going to take them out of play as a seller.  On the West Coast                                                                  
today, there are really two significant arms-length sellers of ANS,                                                             
one is BP and one is EXXON.  The merger with the Charter will turn                                                              
the West Coast into a market where there are potentially now four                                                               
significant sellers of ANS on the West Coast: BP, EXXON, and the                                                                
two companies that pick up the oil under the Charter.  If there is                                                              
a concern that the merger may affect competition, it will mean                                                                  
there are more arms-length crude oil sellers with significant                                                                   
volumes, not less.  If it will do anything, it will have to work in                                                             
the right direction competitively.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
DR. LEITZINGER stated his third reason goes to the relationship                                                                 
between crude oil prices and gasoline prices on the West Coast.                                                                 
This is something at EconOne has been studying carefully for the                                                                
past six to eight months.  One thing that has happened in the West                                                              
Coast over the last three years is gasoline prices have become                                                                  
disconnected from crude oil prices.  The margins that existed in                                                                
prior years in the refining business have increased 30 percent.                                                                 
The market is much more volatile with peak margins doubling in size                                                             
over prior years.   Several things contributed to that disconnect.                                                              
The "carb restrictions" were implemented. No longer can outside                                                                 
supplies of gasoline be brought in to supply the important market                                                               
on the West Coast because outside sources typically can't make                                                                  
large volumes of carb-gasoline quickly.  Second, when you have a                                                                
refinery outage, there isn't an easy way to make that up, and we                                                                
have had several big price spikes in the last three years that have                                                             
caused average margins to go higher. Third, there are some issues                                                               
regarding the market structure and competitiveness of the gasoline                                                              
marketing and distribution business on the West Coast.  There are                                                               
some very odd pricing relationships when you look at Northern and                                                               
Southern California and San Diego in gasoline prices, and the only                                                              
thing that seems to differ is differences in marketing margins and                                                              
what happens to retail under the business.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
DR. LEITZINGER said that is significant for two reasons.  First,                                                                
because of this disconnect, it's not crude oil costs that are                                                                   
driving gasoline prices, it could be pure carb-refining capacity,                                                               
problems with inventory when there are crude outages, or marketing                                                              
issues in the distribution of gasoline.  But, some combination of                                                               
those factors are what is driving gasoline prices on the West Coast                                                             
today, not crude oil costs.  Even if one were to believe that a                                                                 
modest increase in ANS cost for the West Coast were to occur, he                                                                
does not believe you would see it in gasoline prices.  Carb-                                                                    
refining, the availability of supplies for outages, and                                                                         
implications of competitive concerns about the distribution system,                                                             
will be affected by the merger.  Because the West Coast is part of                                                              
the world market, because he doesn't think the merger is going to                                                               
add to anyone's incentive or ability to increase West Coast prices,                                                             
and because of the disconnect between crude oil costs and gasoline                                                              
prices, he doesn't think there is a dangerous prospect here.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Number 44                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL GRIFFIN said Dr. Leitzinger is not the                                                               
only one who has concluded this.  We essentially had this debate in                                                             
1994, and 1995.  At that point, part of the debate really was                                                                   
should we lift the export ban.  Since by doing so, we may cause ANS                                                             
prices to rise which would hurt California gasoline consumers.                                                                  
Sounds a lot like some of the things we have been hearing that are                                                              
allegedly coming out of the FTC. Congress concluded when it decide                                                              
to lift the export ban that the national interest would be advanced                                                             
by allowing ANS to trade at world crude oil prices.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Because of the export ban, the ANS price was artificially                                                                       
depressed.  Alaska was picking up the tab for the export ban.                                                                   
Congress found that it was not in the national interest, because                                                                
California gasoline consumers were not benefiting.  Even though the                                                             
export ban was artificially depressing the price of ANS, and we                                                                 
were paying that cost, the refiners on the West Coast were not                                                                  
passing that along to California gasoline consumers.  They were                                                                 
putting it into their bottom line.  What appears to be happening                                                                
today at the FTC is that they are afraid that the State of Alaska                                                               
may be able to enjoy higher crude oil prices and they are concerned                                                             
about protecting the margins of West Coast refiners.  If that is                                                                
true, we think it is illegitimate and the FTC should step back and                                                              
reevaluate where the national interest is.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 00-7, SIDE A                                                                                                               
Number 001                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
I don't think that the State of Alaska benefits by aiding and                                                                   
abetting what may be an effort by the FTC to protect or increase                                                                
the margins of West Coast refiners.  I mean as Dr. Leitzinger                                                                   
pointed out, it's a world crude market.  It's an argument that's                                                                
not even a rational concern on their part.  Obviously something is                                                              
going on there and that's why we had Dr. Leitzinger here today  to                                                              
talk to you.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked what the current differential is of ANS to                                                               
other West Coast refiners.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. PULLIAM replied the ANS to WTI differential today is about $1.                                                              
                                                                                                                                
AN UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER said the differential has averaged about                                                                
$1.50 over the past year.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. PULLIAM said he thought Saudi is also priced off WTI so he                                                                  
imagines that relationship would be relatively easy to establish.                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked if that is just a little bit less than it                                                                
has been for a long time.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. PULLIAM replied ANS prices have stayed in a very narrow ranges                                                              
on the West Coast at least since 1995 which is about the time ANS                                                               
became deficit to West Coast refiners.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALFORD said, "But even before that it was $1.50 to $2                                                                 
maximum.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. PULLIAM agreed it was closer to $2 below WTI before that time.                                                              
                                                                                                                                
ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GRIFFIN pointed out a report issued by the                                                                   
Governmental Accounting Office (GAO) in June or July of 1999 noted                                                              
the decrease in the differential between ANS and other world market                                                             
crudes that occurred in the 1995 time frame.  The GAO concluded                                                                 
that the rise in the ANS price at that time was not passed along to                                                             
West Coast gasoline consumers.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Another federal agency along with the federal Department of Energy                                                              
concluded that the price of ANS on the West Coast is not a                                                                      
California consumer issue.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALFORD stated, "But that works the other way.  That was                                                               
a rise."                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL GRIFFIN said that was a rise in the                                                                  
price of ANS and, although he does not know what FTC members think,                                                             
if what has been reported in the press about the FTC's concerns is                                                              
accurate, the FTC must be concerned about a price rise in ANS.  A                                                               
price rise concern is the only thing that could drive what is being                                                             
reported about the FTC.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
He indicated there may be a question of the State of Alaska's                                                                   
credibility among some of the FTC staff because they know that                                                                  
Alaska benefits when the price of ANS rises.  The fact that ANS may                                                             
go up is not something that Alaskans should fear, but for a number                                                              
of reasons, the FTC should also not fear it.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Number 82                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. LOEFFLER made the following comments to "connect the dots"                                                                  
between statements made by Dr. Leitzinger, David Boies, and the                                                                 
FTC's alleged concerns.  If the FTC wants to maintain a case based                                                              
on this alleged impact on California consumers, it will run into                                                                
testimony similar to Dr. Leisinger's that there is no retail                                                                    
consumer impact. The FTC is really trying to protect the margins of                                                             
California refiners which several federal reports have said those                                                               
margins to be the highest in the country or, indeed, the world.                                                                 
The FTC has difficulties with its case, if that is its complaint.                                                               
The FTC may have thought it could slow this merger through                                                                      
attrition in the absence of this sustainable legal theory.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL GRIFFIN introduced Dr. Warren-Boulton                                                                
who examined the upstream fitting issues from the State's                                                                       
perspective.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
DR. WARREN-BOULTON made the following points.  First, given the                                                                 
current State leasing practices, even a merger to monopoly would                                                                
not be expected to have a systematic effect on the acreage leased,                                                              
the exploration efforts, or production and hence, on state revenues                                                             
and royalties or taxes.  A merger to monopoly would, however,                                                                   
significantly reduce revenue from bonus bids.  For that reason, he                                                              
has concentrated on the effects of this merger on state revenue                                                                 
from bonus bids.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
He repeated Mr. Boies' statement that the relevant antitrust market                                                             
here is not production but leasing.  The critical issue from the                                                                
point of view of state revenues is the market for state leasing and                                                             
the issue is whether or not this merger will significantly increase                                                             
concentration amongst potential buyers of state leases.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
DR. WARREN-BOULTON said a third potential market is affected by                                                                 
this merger which is the gasoline market in California.  He                                                                     
repeated the critical issue is the effect of the merger on the                                                                  
market for leasing of State lands.  To the extent that the Charter                                                              
is involved in issues of production, the goal is not to create                                                                  
competition in production, but rather to create units that are                                                                  
capable of becoming effective bidders.  The ultimate goal is to                                                                 
increase the competitors in the market for bidding on State leases.                                                             
                                                                                                                                
DR. WARREN-BOULTON informed committee members that he constructed                                                               
a fairly complex econometrics model to determine the value of                                                                   
winning bids.  He calibrated that model using a very extensive data                                                             
set provided by the State on all tracts leased on the North Slope.                                                              
That model was then used to determine the effect on winning bids                                                                
and on State revenues.  Two variables exist; the first affect the                                                               
competitive or true value of the oil under the tract, such as the                                                               
price of oil, the amount of reserves and the cost of recovery.  The                                                             
second set of variables are variables such as the number and nature                                                             
of competing bidders which determine the share of the value that                                                                
goes to the State.  That model is then used to simulate the effect                                                              
of the merger on state revenue and to estimate the potential                                                                    
effects of the merger combined with the Charter.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
DR. WARREN-BOULTON explained the prediction of the model, in terms                                                              
of the effect of the BP-ARCO merger absent the Charter, is a                                                                    
reduction of competition for leases and a reduction of state                                                                    
revenue on bonus bids.  He estimates that historically, the                                                                     
elimination of competition between BP and ARCO would have reduced                                                               
total bonus bids to the State by about 19 percent.  That number is                                                              
a reasonable one to use in looking forward as to the impact of the                                                              
merger, absent any other provisions such as the Charter, on the                                                                 
estimated revenue of the State from bonus bids in the future.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
DR. WARREN-BOULTON said he analyzed the level of bidding activity                                                               
that would be needed on the part of two new firms whose entry was                                                               
induced by the Charter to more than offset the effects on bonus                                                                 
bids of the merger and compared the entrants to existing firms on                                                               
the North Slope.  The analysis reveals what hurdle the Charter will                                                             
have to overcome in order to offset the anti-competitive effects of                                                             
the merger.  The model concluded that the entry of two moderately                                                               
active firms would counteract the effect on bonus bid revenue of                                                                
the merger.  For example, if two entrants with the past bidding                                                                 
characteristics of Union Texas, which ranks fifth in bidding                                                                    
frequency, and Murphy Oil, which ranks about eighth, that would                                                                 
just balance out the effects of the merger of BP and ARCO.  If the                                                              
Charter resulted in the entry of an Amerada clone, which is                                                                     
seventh, and a Murphy Oil clone, that would not be sufficient to                                                                
counteract the effects of the merger and bonus revenues would fall                                                              
about three percent. On the other end, if two firms, such as                                                                    
Unocal, which ranks ninth, and Anadarko, which ranked fourth, the                                                               
net effect would be an increase in bonus revenue by about two                                                                   
percent.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
DR. WARREN-BOULTON explained that since the merger is expected to                                                               
generate significant efficiencies downstream, it follows that if                                                                
the Charter is successful in counteracting the anti-competitive                                                                 
effects of the merger on the leasing market, the state will be                                                                  
better off in terms of revenue with the merger and the Charter than                                                             
without the merger.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Number 225                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN asked how the model compares his analysis of                                                               
two potential buyers with the continuation of ARCO as is.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
DR. WARREN-BOULTON said that is exactly what the model does.  The                                                               
model looks at the entire pattern of ARCO bidding and its effect                                                                
over time, not only on the bid leases but also on its presence on                                                               
the bids by BP and others.  The model looks at what the effects                                                                 
would be if there was no competition between BP and ARCO.  The                                                                  
effects are quite substantial; about a 20 percent reduction.  The                                                               
model was also constructed to ask what the effect of bidding by                                                                 
Union Texas and all other bidder firms was.  He was then able to                                                                
combine BP and ARCO and ask how large and aggressive the entrants                                                               
would have to be to offset the anti-competitive effect of the                                                                   
merger.  The answer is, assuming that the Charter is effective in                                                               
introducing two firms, that the effects on bonus revenue of the                                                                 
merger could be counteracted.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN asked Dr. Warren-Boulton if he has checked his                                                             
model against the last couple of lease bids in which the                                                                        
combinations did not rise to the top in getting bids.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
DR. WARREN-BOULTON answered the model uses all data from the entire                                                             
leasing period since leasing began in Alaska.  He asked whether                                                                 
those relationships have changed over time to re-estimate the model                                                             
for different time periods and got substantially the same effect.                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN clarified that he was asking if Dr. Warren-                                                                
Boulton compared the findings of his model regarding off-setting                                                                
the anti-competitive possibility of the Charter and the merger with                                                             
the real picture in which Anadarko did not win the leases that ARCO                                                             
did.                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
DR. WARREN-BOULTON replied the presence of firms bidding affects                                                                
the winning bid even if they don't win.  For example, one of the                                                                
things he found was the presence of ARCO had a significant impact                                                               
on the bid by BP even when BP was the winning bidder.  The                                                                      
potential competition from ARCO had a significant impact on the                                                                 
winning bids even on tracts that ARCO did not bid on because firms                                                              
do not know who will bid.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN expressed concern that something is not right                                                              
with the model.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Number 363                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WHITAKER asked if Dr. Warren-Boulton's model is                                                                  
available for review.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
DR. WARREN-BOULTON asked to take a look at that question but                                                                    
surmised that until the outcome at the FTC is known, the model is                                                               
probably not available.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WHITAKER expressed concern that the committee's                                                                  
inability to validate substantial conclusions presented by the                                                                  
Administration is problematic.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN said Assistant Attorney General Griffin noted                                                              
he was not surprised that BP's previous attempts to find a single                                                               
operator for the North Slope failed.  He said he presumes those                                                                 
attempts failed because of a problem with ownership of proprietary                                                              
information and asked if that is correct.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL GRIFFIN replied that he has no direct                                                                
personal knowledge of what considerations entered into the                                                                      
discussions of the parties in negotiations.  From looking at the                                                                
Prudhoe Bay field and the separate participating areas for the oil                                                              
revenue gas cap, his guess is that an inability to agree on the                                                                 
value of the gas played a substantial role.  He noted that since                                                                
the inception of Prudhoe Bay, they have not been able to do it even                                                             
though it makes sense to have a single operator for that field.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN asked Assistant Attorney General Griffin if he                                                             
said the value that the various estimators made on the gas cap may                                                              
have had an effect on the bids for other leases.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL GRIFFIN clarified he was responding to                                                               
the question of why does the Administration think the owners at                                                                 
Prudhoe Bay have not been able to align their interests to date.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL GRIFFIN offered to address further                                                                   
questions about the fiscal report prepared by Dan Dickenson for                                                                 
Commissioner Condon.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked Assistant Attorney General Griffin to                                                                    
elaborate on the last paragraph of the conclusion.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL GRIFFIN read the paragraph as follows.                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     The goal of the Charter for development of the Alaska                                                                      
     North Slope was to keep North Slope competition alive in                                                                   
     the long term and create replacement barrels for the                                                                       
     fields that drive our current production.  It will be                                                                      
     many years before our forecast will begin to reflect                                                                       
     whether that attempt was successful or not.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
He said he believes there is a question of whether there is going                                                               
to be additional production in the short term over what we have                                                                 
predicted and would be expected to predict in the absence of thee                                                               
merger.  Hypothetically, if the FTC was to block the merger, the                                                                
Charter would disappear and none of the efficiencies hoped for                                                                  
would occur at Prudhoe Bay.  The long term intent of the Charter                                                                
was to create competitors for future North Slope lease sales.  It                                                               
will be years before it is known whether the creation of new                                                                    
operators and new competitors on the North Slope will ultimately                                                                
produce more barrels of oil than we might have otherwise seen                                                                   
through a single operator across the North Slope.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Number 363                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA asked, in the best of all worlds, whether                                                               
the group believes it would be better for the long term picture of                                                              
Alaska to go back and have ARCO as it was or to have the Charter.                                                               
                                                                                                                                
ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL GRIFFIN stated a lot of people really                                                                
respected ARCO.  People liked that ARCO was aggressive in some                                                                  
areas of developing the North Slope while BP was more aggressive in                                                             
other areas.  BP and ARCO brought two sets of eyes and skills to                                                                
the North Slope and tried different things.  In that sense,                                                                     
reverting to the way things were sounds good.  He does not believe                                                              
that is any longer a realistic view, however, and the                                                                           
Administration is not articulating an anti-trust argument that ARCO                                                             
is a failing company.  He agrees with the market's perception that                                                              
the combined companies would be a lot stronger.  In the long term,                                                              
combining the interests of Prudhoe Bay, achieving some cost synergy                                                             
in other areas of the North Slope, and creating new competitors in                                                              
Alaska, the State will be better off in terms of the total numbers                                                              
of barrels produced.  He maintained that ARCO was a great company                                                               
but the bottom line is that the State will be better off as a                                                                   
consequence of the new arrangement.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA asked if he approached this issue with the                                                              
view that the merger would happen.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL GRIFFIN replied when the proposed merger                                                             
was announced, it took everyone by surprise.  The Administration                                                                
did not start its investigation with any preconceived notion of                                                                 
"the right answer."  They looked at the law and the facts and                                                                   
adopted an approach that appropriately reflects how government                                                                  
should react when it sees a situation like this.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WHITAKER indicated one part of AS 45.55.068 says                                                                 
that a substantial lessening of competition may not develop from an                                                             
acquisition or merger.  He asked Assistant Attorney General Griffin                                                             
to justify the Charter agreement with regard to AS 45.55.068.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Number 415                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL GRIFFIN replied that particular statute                                                              
is an analog of the federal Clayton Act.  The legal standards that                                                              
Mr. Boies spoke about would, more likely than not, apply in the                                                                 
interpretation to the state's law as well.  The question is not                                                                 
only about competition, it is about the sort of competition that                                                                
the antitrust laws are designed to protect.  He asked committee                                                                 
members to keep in mind whether the merger creates a viable                                                                     
antitrust case and whether the law would even apply.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WHITAKER asked if he is referring to Mr. Boies'                                                                  
comments regarding the upstream versus consumer issues on the                                                                   
downstream issue.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL GRIFFIN said yes.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WHITAKER asked if Mr. Boies' concern is with the                                                                 
downstream.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Number 438                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL GRIFFIN thought Mr. Boies' was saying                                                                
the traditional antitrust analysis would focus on consumers.  He                                                                
added that the Administration did take a look at competition and                                                                
that is precisely what they asked Dr. Warren-Boulton to look at on                                                              
the upstream.  They asked him to address what the loss of ARCO as                                                               
a competitor at the lease sale stage would mean to the State.                                                                   
Regardless of whether all antitrust experts would agree that Alaska                                                             
has a case, the Administration felt it was important to exercise                                                                
the State's responsibility to protect the public interest to create                                                             
a competitive environment on the North Slope.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WHITAKER thought that would lead to a negation of                                                                
Mr. Boies' contention that the upstream competitive issue really is                                                             
not an issue.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL GRIFFIN responded that one could argue                                                               
that the upstream competition issue is not an antitrust issue.  The                                                             
Administration never took that position in its negotiations.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
DR. WARREN-BOULTON added they would have said the leasing market is                                                             
an antitrust market and that the State of Alaska is standing in as                                                              
a consumer.  There is no difference between a merger that increases                                                             
monopoly that raises prices to consumers or a merger that creates                                                               
monopoly power that reduces prices paid to input suppliers.  The                                                                
Antitrust Division merger guidelines regards the two as equal.  His                                                             
conclusion, however, is there is risk of litigation even when one                                                               
is on the right side.  In his analysis the issue comes down to the                                                              
fact that it is pro-competitive if it leads to more revenues and it                                                             
is anti-competitive if it leads to less revenues to the State of                                                                
Alaska in exactly the same way that a merger in an output market is                                                             
pro-competitive if it leads to lower prices to consumers and anti-                                                              
competitive if it leads to higher prices to consumers.  The                                                                     
litigation risk arises in the distinction between what one would                                                                
argue and what one believes and persuading the court.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WHITAKER said he understands that argument in part.                                                              
He asked Assistant Attorney General Griffin to elaborate on point                                                               
number 2.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL GRIFFIN said assuming the broader                                                                    
interpretation of the statute is correct, the Administration looked                                                             
at the competition issue and then developed the solution necessary                                                              
to address the competitive problems they saw.  One of the tenets of                                                             
the application of the antitrust laws is that in evaluating a                                                                   
proposed agreement between two private parties, the government can                                                              
step in and take that contract away if the public interest in                                                                   
preserving competition requires it.  Taking the contract and                                                                    
ripping it up is the most egregious form of government reaction.                                                                
It is incumbent upon the government to look at the agreement and                                                                
ask itself whether there is a less drastic remedy which is what the                                                             
Administration did.  They looked at the Charter and developed a                                                                 
structure that would guarantee competitors in future North Slope                                                                
lease sales on both state and federal lands.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WHITAKER asked if he could justify the substantial                                                               
lessening of competition concerns of AS 45.55.068.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL GRIFFIN said the Charter satisfies any                                                               
concerns under the state's antitrust laws by creating one, and                                                                  
possibly two, new operators on the North Slope who have the                                                                     
production, right to operate, and additional exploration leases                                                                 
necessary to form the basis of a company that will step into ARCO's                                                             
shoes and bid.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE WHITAKER commented if that is the case, he finds it                                                              
curious that there is a necessity in the Charter under the heading                                                              
of Number 3, Alaska's Commitment.  The last sentence of that                                                                    
paragraph reads:                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     The State accordingly agrees that in exchange for                                                                          
     BP/ARCO's fulfillment of their obligations under this                                                                      
     merger, it will not seek to enjoin the merger to seek                                                                      
     additional orders or judgments under AS 45.55.080 related                                                                  
     to a claim that the merger is unlawful under AS                                                                            
     45.55.068.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
He repeated that if it is so clear that the Charter answers the                                                                 
antitrust concerns under its merits, it seems strange that it need                                                              
be specifically precluded from prosecution under that statute.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL GRIFFIN commented that the sentence read                                                             
by Representative Whitaker is the consideration the state gave in                                                               
return for forcing BP to agree to divest between $3 and $4 billion                                                              
worth of assets.  It is the standard response of the enforcement                                                                
agency that if the parties being investigated agree to your terms,                                                              
you will not sue them under the antitrust laws alleging that the                                                                
merger they propose is unlawful.  He emphasized that provision is                                                               
very unremarkable.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CROFT asked whether the Administration had the                                                                   
information about the merger costing the state money if it was                                                                  
anti-competitive and that income tax could be less even though                                                                  
profits were higher when negotiating the Charter agreement.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL GRIFFIN said the Administration did not                                                              
have the document at the time but it knew that the combination of                                                               
ARCO and BP would have a number of effects on the corporate income                                                              
tax.  The Administration knew the efficiencies that the companies                                                               
were claiming were attributable to the merger of their interests                                                                
and should serve to increase the worldwide income that the State of                                                             
Alaska would look to in calculating the Alaska income tax.  The                                                                 
Administration also knew the apportionment factors would change.                                                                
Mr. Dickenson's report indicated one cannot predict with any                                                                    
certainty where the numbers would fall out.  Certain factors                                                                    
suggest an increase in the taxable income, other aspects of the tax                                                             
regime suggest the combination may affect the size of the slice                                                                 
that Alaska takes when it apportions income for tax purposes.  The                                                              
Administration knew of the potential effect but it also knew there                                                              
was no definite way to quantify those effects.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
DR. WARREN-BOULTON stated there are three ways the efficiencies can                                                             
be passed through to the State of Alaska.  The first group is the                                                               
extent to which those efficiencies are retained by the firm and                                                                 
there is a profits tax.  Second, if the efficiencies result in                                                                  
reducing the initial cost of extraction, a larger quantity of oil                                                               
will result in more royalties.  Finally, to the extent that                                                                     
efficiencies are carried forward to the future in terms of                                                                      
exploration on new land, the more efficient the firm, the higher                                                                
the reservation bid price.  Efficiencies will have a positive                                                                   
impact on state revenues through state income tax, royalties, and                                                               
bonus bidding.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 00-07, SIDE B                                                                                                              
Number 001                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE CROFT stated the Administration's argument is that                                                               
as corporate profits increase, the state will benefit from                                                                      
increased production that will result from efficiency.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
DR. WARREN-BOULTON replied in addition to the direct accounting                                                                 
effects through the income tax, if the efficiencies result from                                                                 
larger production at Prudhoe Bay, royalty revenue will increase due                                                             
to quantity even though the royalty rate remains the same.  To the                                                              
extent that those efficiencies mean that new prospects look more                                                                
profitable in the future, the bids will go up.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Number 579                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE KERTTULA asked for an explanation of the dangers of                                                              
monopsony are in general.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
DR. WARREN-BOULTON replied a monopsony can be as dangerous as a                                                                 
monopoly.  People see monopolies as creating a transfer of wealth                                                               
from consumers to producers and they restrict output.  Monopsony                                                                
has the same effect.  One buyer results in two things:  first a                                                                 
transfer of income from the producer to the buyer occurs, and                                                                   
second, a monopsony usually drives down the price by being                                                                      
[indisc.].  He said if all steel firms were merged into a monopsony                                                             
so that they were the only buyer of iron ore, the end effect would                                                              
be a higher steel price.  In many cases, monopsony power can occur                                                              
where the output effect is fairly small.  He pointed out a reserve                                                              
clause is used in professional sports contracts in which a player                                                               
can play for only one team.  That clause does not result in lower                                                               
ticket prices.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN said his series of comments pertained to basic                                                             
assumptions that went into the modeling and the group's approach.                                                               
For example, there was a question of whether ARCO would continue to                                                             
exist if the merger does not occur.  ARCO spent almost $500 million                                                             
last year and is going to its Board of Directors next week to                                                                   
request another huge expenditure.  BP will make no commitment in                                                                
that same regard.  There is concern that without the merger                                                                     
efficiencies will not be realized, yet efficiencies in charter                                                                  
flights, drilling, warehousing, and personnel have already taken                                                                
place. He asked what assumptions went into the modeling.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
DR. WARREN-BOULTON replied the model estimates what the effects of                                                              
things really were.  He explained the value of the winning bid on                                                               
tracts, and the amount of revenues the state gets on state tracts,                                                              
is very sensitive to the price of oil.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN clarified he was concerned about the groups'                                                               
attitudes and how much those attitudes affected the outcome.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
DR. WARREN-BOULTON asked Representative Green to elaborate on the                                                               
groups' attitudes.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN said he is hearing that it is far more                                                                     
favorable to the State of Alaska, both now and in the future, that                                                              
this merger continue as outlined in the Charter.  That belief was                                                               
most likely predicated on the result of modeling or analysis by the                                                             
Administration's experts.  He expressed concern that some of the                                                                
input used in the model one year ago may no longer be applicable or                                                             
valid.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Number 518                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL GRIFFIN asked Dr. Warren-Boulton if the                                                              
price of oil affects his model, and if so, how.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
DR. WARREN-BOULTON replied the price of oil plays a very important                                                              
role in the model.  He surmised that Representative Green is asking                                                             
whether the conclusion of what the State needs, regarding new                                                                   
entrants, is sensitive to the price of oil.  Regarding whether the                                                              
burden on the Charter is greater if the price of oil is low, the                                                                
answer is "no."  If one is just looking at offsetting the effect of                                                             
the merger on revenues, two new entrants of the seventh and eighth                                                              
rank would be sufficient.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN maintained that answer says the assumptions,                                                               
as well as the price of oil used, would not change the results now.                                                             
                                                                                                                                
DR. WARREN-BOULTON indicated any model is an attempt to learn from                                                              
history.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked if the FTC must prove damage from increased                                                              
monopoly power or whether it has to prove that increased monopoly                                                               
power will exist as the result of the merger.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Number 484                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. BRADLEY LUI replied the FTC would have to prove that it is                                                                  
likely the merger would substantially lessen competition.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked if the FTC proves the merger would                                                                       
substantially lessen competition, whether it has to prove any                                                                   
specific consumer damage from the lessening of competition.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. LUI replied the FTC would have to show that the merger is                                                                   
likely to result in a substantial lessening of competition and that                                                             
is the consumer harm.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALFORD clarified he is trying to separate out the two                                                                 
questions.  If the FTC proves a substantial lessening of                                                                        
competition is likely to occur, must the FTC then prove that will                                                               
impact price, leasing, or something else or does the FTC have to                                                                
prove a substantive affect on somebody.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. LUI answered, as Mr. Boies pointed out, there is an argument                                                                
that the FTC must prove a merger would have a substantial effect on                                                             
consumers.  If the State were to litigate, it would not take that                                                               
position, however there is a litigation risk associated with that                                                               
position.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked about case law on that question.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. LUI replied that most merger cases are settled so no definitive                                                             
law exists.  He felt the companies do have an argument that the FTC                                                             
would have to prove consumer effect.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked if the FTC chooses to enjoin the merger,                                                                 
whether it would enjoin the original merger.  He asked whether the                                                              
Charter is before the FTC to act on.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR. LUI explained if the FTC seeks to get a preliminary injunction                                                              
in federal court, the FTC will argue that it take the transaction                                                               
as originally proposed by the parties.  The parties will probably                                                               
argue the merger is the merger plus the Charter.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALFORD noted the Charter is an agreement between BP and                                                               
the State of Alaska.  He questioned whether BP can amend the merger                                                             
agreement to include the provisions of the Charter so that the                                                                  
entire package is before the FTC.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR. LUI replied the Charter is a binding agreement between the                                                                  
companies and the State of Alaska so that it is the contract before                                                             
the FTC.  Whether the FTC decides to accept the Charter is within                                                               
its authority.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked if another agreement was added between the                                                               
companies and the State of California, whether the FTC would                                                                    
consider the  merger, plus Charter, plus the agreement with the                                                                 
State of California.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR. LUI said that would depend on the agreement itself but,                                                                     
assuming it is a binding contract that is enforceable by the State                                                              
of California, then the FTC should consider it.  He thought a court                                                             
would.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Number 422                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN asked how the FTC would go about stopping the                                                              
merger after reviewing the price of ANS in California.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR. LUI answered typically the FTC would go to federal court, seek                                                              
a preliminary injunction and enjoin the merger.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR PEARCE asked if the model assumed the same acres would be                                                               
leased, just changing the bid price.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
DR. WARREN-BOULTON answered that the model doesn't ask the question                                                             
regarding bidders.  It asks given the acreage and all the                                                                       
provisions of the Charter which are intended to create an active                                                                
bidder, how active does that bidder have to be.  It doesn't ask how                                                             
the provisions of the Charter result in an active bidder.  It can't                                                             
answer the question.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR PEARCE referred to page 2 of Mr. Dickenson's memo, point                                                                
one, where he assumes production volumes from known resources will                                                              
not be affected by the merger on one hand and on the other hand,                                                                
Mr. Holt asserts that the merger should improve production                                                                      
efficiency on the North Slope. She asked why Mr. Dickens came to                                                                
his conclusion of no increase in production because of those                                                                    
efficiencies.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL GRIFFIN answered that the memo is the                                                                
director's explanation to the Commissioner regarding why the                                                                    
revenue forecast doesn't reflect any change attributable to the                                                                 
merger.  It's slightly different than asking about whether the                                                                  
Charter will increase production.  Mr. Dickens did not include                                                                  
anything that suggests the merger will affect production, because                                                               
he was operating under the same sort of uncertainties Mr. Campbell                                                              
alluded to when he was asked what BP's spending commitment was                                                                  
going to be.  Mr. Dickens didn't know if the merger was going to go                                                             
through.  He was making relatively conservative assumptions about                                                               
what the world was going to look like.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
The question should be what production do you anticipate seeing as                                                              
a consequence of creating new operators who ultimately they expect                                                              
to see bidding on new prospects or on State land and bring those                                                                
ultimately into development.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Number 282                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR PEARCE said on page 1, it says, "based on his analysis, the                                                             
Division concludes the most likely effect from the merger the                                                                   
revenue sources would be immaterial."  This was the response to                                                                 
what happens to the revenues under the Charter.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL GRIFFIN answered that until new                                                                      
investments tell them there will be a bump in production, it's too                                                              
early to include that bump in an estimate on the effect the merger                                                              
will have.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALFORD noted that there was about 15 minutes before                                                                   
everyone had to leave to catch airplanes and asked what everyone                                                                
wanted to do.  People indicated they would continue.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR PEARCE referenced page 4 and 5 that a theory says the                                                                   
merger might reduce costs in Prudhoe Bay in the short term, but                                                                 
because of the combination of the two largest players, there would                                                              
be less competition leading to less competition in the long term.                                                               
She asked how smaller economic players could replace ARCO's                                                                     
competitive presence completely.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
DR.WARREN-BOULTON answered that if they are looking at the effects                                                              
of the merger on the states revenues, they would not have to create                                                             
two small firms that are collectively as large as ARCO to counter                                                               
balance the effects of the merger.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR PEARCE asked if two smaller companies could replace ARCO's                                                              
competitive presence.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
DR. WARREN-BOULTON answered that he didn't think there was a                                                                    
concern from an economic, antitrust, or a state revenue point of                                                                
view having firms compete in production.  Where competition is                                                                  
important is in the bidding process.  Once a tract is leased,                                                                   
production takes place by a single firm.  Firms don't compete in                                                                
the exploitation of a particular tract and therefore, the reason                                                                
why there is so much emphasis on creating multiple firms that                                                                   
produce is not because economic theory says we are better off                                                                   
having many different firms performing their function, but that                                                                 
having a firm with those resources means they have the information,                                                             
knowledge, and ability to bid more effectively on new tracts.  Once                                                             
you lease those tracts from the State's point of view, they are                                                                 
gone. All you care about is the volume of production that comes off                                                             
those tracts.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR PEARCE asked if two smaller companies could be expected to                                                              
gain the same efficiencies of scale as ARCO and, therefore, have                                                                
the same level of production.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
DR. WARREN-BOULTON answered that you could always joint venture a                                                               
production operation, if two little companies are less efficient.                                                               
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR PEARCE asked if the Charter didn't specifically disallow                                                                
companies A and B from combining.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL GRIFFIN answered that under the Charter                                                              
there could be a single purchaser of the Kuparuk and the Alpine                                                                 
packages.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALFORD commented that single purchasers would be almost                                                               
half as big as ARCO.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL GRIFFIN answered with 175,000 barrels of                                                             
production, yes.  From the State's perspective of capturing the                                                                 
benefits at Prudhoe Bay, they required divestiture of close to all                                                              
the production that was outside of Prudhoe Bay today under ARCO's                                                               
control.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Number 215                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR TAYLOR recapped that we have a merger announced that                                                                    
violates certain state laws of antitrust, that too much of our land                                                             
is to be leased by one company.  The Governor put a deal together                                                               
and now we found out that we're not going to make any money, but                                                                
they are going to make $140 million net.  That's just off of what                                                               
they are telling us which makes it conservative at best.  Now we're                                                             
going to force this new company to go out on the market and sell $3                                                             
billion - $5 billion worth of assets.  We have no control over how                                                              
that sale occurs other than they divest themselves in the market.                                                               
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL GRIFFIN responded that the State has the                                                             
ability to object to a purchaser or purchasers of the packages.  If                                                             
they object, the sales cannot go through unless BP goes to court                                                                
and gets a court order saying it's O.K.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR TAYLOR asked on what basis the State might object.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL GRIFFIN answered if packages were put                                                                
together that did not reflect the terms of the Charter - the amount                                                             
of production, acreage, infrastructure, and the right to operate.                                                               
A sale could not be consummated unless they went to the court and                                                               
said even though they weren't creating new operators, they were                                                                 
divesting the production.  They would not win that case.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR TAYLOR responded that for this we have given up the State's                                                             
right to exercise what are our existing State laws.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL GRIFFIN said he would agree with that.                                                               
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR TAYLOR said in Rome that was called dispensation or paying                                                              
for sinning.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL GRIFFIN explained when the companies                                                                 
acceded to the State's demands and entered the settlement agreement                                                             
they felt was necessary to alleviate concerns created under that                                                                
statute, the State, as any other enforcement agency would do, once                                                              
they had gotten what they needed to address their concerns, they                                                                
agreed they would not sue to enjoin the merger.  Once BP agreed to                                                              
the conditions the State set to make the merger acceptable, it was                                                              
incumbent upon us to let BP know we weren't going to file a lawsuit                                                             
the next day claiming the merger violated state law.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR TAYLOR went on to say that part of the deal didn't have                                                                 
anything to do with oil or future production.  It had a lot to do                                                               
with someone who wanted to play Santa Claus.  He asked if there was                                                             
any money in there for the University.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL GRIFFIN answered that there was an                                                                   
unenforceable commitment by BP to increase its charitable givings.                                                              
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR TAYLOR asked, "Unenforceable?"                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL GRIFFIN replied if the merger goes                                                                   
through and the Charter is implimented, and BP were to say they                                                                 
changed their minds about the charitable commitment, the State                                                                  
could not sue to enforce that.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked if there was a private right of action under                                                             
the anti-trust act.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL GRIFFIN replied, "Yes, there is."                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALFORD asked if someone else could sue even though the                                                                
State didn't.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL GRIFFIN replied if there was a person in                                                             
the State that suffered an anti competitive injury as a consequence                                                             
of the actions of these companies, they have the right to bring                                                                 
their own lawsuit alleging violation of the anti-trust laws.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR TAYLOR asked if they could bring a lawsuit not only against                                                             
the companies, but against the State, itself.  He asked, "Aren't we                                                             
a party at this point?"                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Number 116                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL GRIFFIN answered, "No, they couldn't                                                                 
bring an anti-trust lawsuit against the State.  No actions of the                                                               
State would create competitive harm to others affected by this                                                                  
industry."                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR TAYLOR said he was confused about who and what was going to                                                             
the FTC.  At first it was the merger; then it became merger plus                                                                
Charter.  He asked if this Administration is also advocating                                                                    
acceptance of this merger to the FTC.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL GRIFFIN answered that the Administration                                                             
addressed the FTC and informed it that in their view the Charter                                                                
satisfied any legitimate anti-competitive concerns with respect to                                                              
the upstream.  They have also expressed the view that they didn't                                                               
see the effect on the price of gasoline in California as being                                                                  
attributable to the merger.  Taken together, it could be                                                                        
interpreted as urging the FTC to accept the deal.  They have done                                                               
everything they could to explain the Charter to the FTC.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR TAYLOR asked if there were any obligations or liabilities                                                               
the State has incurred through taking these positions relative to                                                               
this deal.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL GRIFFIN replied that he would say not.                                                               
This is a contract between the State and the companies.  It                                                                     
expressly does not create a third party right of action in any of                                                               
its provisions.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR TAYLOR asked about an action by the companies against us.                                                               
He asked what if the Legislature after these hearings makes a                                                                   
decision that they don't like the merger, to the extent BP was made                                                             
to do things they didn't want to do.  He asked if the Legislature                                                               
had liability within the contract.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL GRIFFIN answered that the State has an                                                               
obligation under the contract which is that we will not sue to                                                                  
enjoin their merger if the comply with the terms of the agreement.                                                              
Anything the Legislature does, for example, passing a resolution                                                                
objecting to the Charter, that wouldn't constitute a violation of                                                               
the Charter.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR TAYLOR reiterated the question that there was nothing the                                                               
Legislature could do.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL GRIFFIN reiterated not with respect to                                                               
the State's obligations under the Charter.  The executive branch is                                                             
charged with enforcement of the anti-trust laws, but the agreement                                                              
says that the executive branch is not going to sue to enjoin the                                                                
merger assuming the companies live up to their end of the bargain.                                                              
It does not purport explicitly or implicitly to limit in any way                                                                
any of the legitimate powers of the Legislature.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN said a December 13, 1999 letter from                                                                       
Commissioner Shively to the various owners ...                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 00-08, SIDE A                                                                                                              
Number 001                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL GRIFFIN responded for example, if a                                                                  
working interest owner at Kuparuk tried to exercise preference                                                                  
rights in a way that defeated the intent of the Charter                                                                         
(essentially prohibited BP from complying with its terms, because                                                               
it could not meet the level of production and obligation to                                                                     
relinquish operatorship), Commissioner Shively is saying he would                                                               
take that into consideration in his best interest analysis.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALFORD said he thought it was worded stronger than that.                                                              
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN said he had done reservoir modeling of Prudhoe                                                             
in his other life and knew they could be "tweaked."  He asked if                                                                
the analysis was predicated completely on bidding affects or                                                                    
bidding affects and subsequent operations, since bidding represents                                                             
only less than five percent of the revenue the State receives from                                                              
oil operations.  He wanted to know how far their model went.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
DR. WARREN-BOULTON said the short answer was no.  He said the                                                                   
statistic returns are very robust and you don't make variables                                                                  
become significant or insignificant depending on how you specify                                                                
it.                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE GREEN asked if the model dealt with the bonus                                                                    
effect.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
DR. WARREN-BOULTON answered they just dealt with the bonus effects,                                                             
but he wanted to clarify why they are obsessed with bonus revenues                                                              
because they are such a small share of the total.  First of all,                                                                
the effects are true in Alaska, but not generally true anywhere                                                                 
else.  Anywhere else, bonus share is a very high share of the                                                                   
revenue.  It is extraordinarily low in Alaska.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
The second reason is all the impact of the merger is going to have                                                              
a magnified effect on the bonus. Even though the bonus revenue may                                                              
be a small percentage of the total, the effect of the merger on the                                                             
bonus revenue is quite large.  The bonus is everything you get                                                                  
above the base.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Number 60                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR TAYLOR asked, if as part of these negotiations, was any                                                                 
commitment, pledge or promise made concerning the future tax                                                                    
revenues or royalties of this State.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL GRIFFIN answered, "Absolutely not.  All                                                              
of the State's commitments in its entirety can be found on page 12                                                              
of the Charter,  paragraph 3, section 3.  It's a recognition that                                                               
the companies will abide by the divestitures mandated in the                                                                    
agreement and the State will not block their merger.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR TAYLOR said he had asked the Administrative consultants, if                                                             
they attempted any calculation of the net worth of ARCO assets at                                                               
the time of acquisition (proposed last spring) and how that would                                                               
differ from their worth now - in stock value for instance and he                                                                
was told no.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
He should have asked, when you sell the assets that used to be ARCO                                                             
to another company, what's the difference between the depreciated                                                               
value and the market value for ARCO or BP.  Through this forced                                                                 
divestiture, are we forcing them to run out and make a huge profit                                                              
based on what they are selling the assets for.  He guessed with                                                                 
today's $25 a barrel oil, it sells higher than it would have last                                                               
spring.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Number 146                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL GRIFFIN responded that a more                                                                        
traditional view would hold that when you force companies to divest                                                             
billions of dollars of assets at no minimum value, you are unlikely                                                             
to be forcing them into making deals with an excess profit.  BP and                                                             
ARCO will get whatever they can for those assets, but he didn't                                                                 
know what it would be.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR. LOEFFLER added that regulated assets have to be sold for rate                                                               
making purposes at their depreciated value.  They can't build that                                                              
stepped up cost into the rates once they are sold to a new owner.                                                               
The law is different for regulated assets [than for private                                                                     
industry].                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Someone said that the pipeline rate can't change based on the sale                                                              
price.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR TAYLOR agreed and said that doesn't mean they can't be paid                                                             
a bonus for the percentage they are selling if it's worth it.  He                                                               
wasn't concerned if this was just an exchange between the two                                                                   
companies and done on a stock swap, but none of the assets will go                                                              
back to the State to sell.  The State has no control over that.  We                                                             
get to monitor a little bit, but he didn't think our supervision                                                                
had anything to do with market value and whether they sold at a                                                                 
good price or a bad price was probably proprietary information we                                                               
would not have access to.  He was wondering if there were any                                                                   
computations done in light of the significant increase in the oil                                                               
values that have occurred in the last nine months.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
DR. WARREN-BOULTON responded if the goal is creating more revenue,                                                              
then the thing to do is make sure BP sells these assets for the                                                                 
highest price they can get to take advantage of the opportunities                                                               
and future exploration.  The person who is going to be most active                                                              
in exploring is going to be the one who is going to pay the most                                                                
for the assets.  Any concern with these kinds of divestitures in                                                                
cases is that the selling firm might deliberately go out and sell                                                               
to someone other than the highest price - simply because they                                                                   
wouldn't compete with them.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
He thought the State should try to make sure the assets are sold to                                                             
the highest possible bidder because that is their best indication                                                               
of the kind of bidder who is going to take advantage of the                                                                     
opportunities to explore rather than just sit there pump and sell                                                               
the oil.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR TAYLOR said that seemed backwards to him.  If the cost of                                                               
production has anything to do with the value invested into the                                                                  
assets acquired or to develop that production (if we're at $9 or                                                                
$10 per barrel) forcing the market high would seem to force up the                                                              
investment value within the cost of production.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Number 175                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
DR. WARREN-BOULTON commented that as an economist, what you pay for                                                             
an asset is water under the bridge.  The question is are you going                                                              
to be an efficient operator of those assets. The best way to do                                                                 
that is to find who is willing to pay the most.  It's not that                                                                  
you're charging more for it; it's that by selling to the highest                                                                
bidder, you have located the person who is going to make the most                                                               
money by running that asset (Dr. Warren-Boulton used the analogy of                                                             
buying a factory.)  You want an efficient effective competitor who                                                              
will bid vigorously on new tracts that are offered on the Slope.                                                                
The best indication of that is someone who is willing to pay an                                                                 
awful lot for those assets.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR PEARCE said she wanted a letter stating the note from                                                                   
Commissioner Condon was a fiscal note for the Charter and if it                                                                 
wasn't, the Committee wanted one.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALFORD announced an at-ease from 6:00 - 6:25p.m.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. MACLEOD commented that the most important disagreement they had                                                             
today was the statement from Mr. Boies that the antitrust laws                                                                  
would not apply if we are not dealing with consumers in the                                                                     
traditional sense or if we are thinking of Alaska or producers.  He                                                             
said the Supreme Court had resolved that a long time ago; the                                                                   
antitrust laws apply equally to impacts on producers selling to                                                                 
anticompetitive markets just as they apply to consumers buying from                                                             
an anticompetitive market.  Dr. Boulton's factory analogy was a                                                                 
good one there.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. MACLEOD said he heard a good deal about the efficiencies of the                                                             
merger, but he didn't hear why the merger was necessary to achieve                                                              
the efficiency of unification of Prudhoe.  This is an issue they                                                                
haven't been able to agree on before.  They were not the                                                                        
efficiencies antitrust laws typically recognize.  As a matter of                                                                
fact, the merger itself required a valuation of the opportunities                                                               
each side had in unifying their operations, because the merger is                                                               
valuation of asset improvement - of the assets all around the                                                                   
companies including the value that was represented by the operation                                                             
of Prudhoe Bay.  If BP could increase efficiency by virtue of                                                                   
unification, they ought to be able to do it as a joint venture or                                                               
by agreement.  He thought that was how the antitrust authorities                                                                
would look at it.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Number 200                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
The market reaction was used sometimes by the Administration's                                                                  
consultants as an indicator that this was a good deal, but the                                                                  
market reacts to the profitability prospects of the companies; it                                                               
doesn't react as to whether those prospects are results of                                                                      
procompetitive or anticompetitive practices.  If Coke and Pepsi                                                                 
were to propose merging tomorrow, he thought the market would                                                                   
applaud that because they could make a lot more money by not                                                                    
competing with one another. But that market doesn't tell us whether                                                             
a deal like that is good for consumers.  It seems the answer to                                                                 
whether the deal is good for Alaska goes back to the basic                                                                      
assumption that Alaska has to deal with a post ARCO world and that                                                              
they are not a viable entity here in Alaska.  He didn't hear                                                                    
anything like that.  He didn't see why the State had to chose just                                                              
between the merger, the merger with the Charter, and nothing else.                                                              
The State should be able to choose between those alternatives and                                                               
the alternative of an ARCO in the form it was in before the merger                                                              
was announced.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
DR. SCHEFFMAN said he has sat on situations like this with the FTC                                                              
and it's not easy to negotiate a settlement to an antitrust issue.                                                              
He agreed with much of what Dr. Warren-Boulton said, but he thought                                                             
the problem was that the analysis of theoretical reasons stops                                                                  
short of where the real issue is.  The real action is not in the                                                                
lease bids, it's in the exploration and development expenditures                                                                
afterwards.   We know the reality of who would spend most of the                                                                
money.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
It's an economist's theoretical assumption that it doesn't make any                                                             
difference what happens afterwards on leased acreage once someone                                                               
bids.  He knows that's not true; ARCO and BP are uniquely important                                                             
and the competition between them is important.  The efficiency                                                                  
claim makes that very clear.  The claim is that they have to do a                                                               
merger because the if the hats of the parties involved in Prudhoe                                                               
were different, we wouldn't have this problem. The identity of the                                                              
parties and the uniqueness of ARCO is particularly important in                                                                 
what happens in Alaska in the development of resources.  All the                                                                
evidence points to that conclusion.  A theoretical model that                                                                   
predicts what would happen to bidding doesn't answer the really                                                                 
important question here.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
DR. SCHEFFMAN said the Charter is an unprecedented reorganization                                                               
of the critical assets of the State of Alaska.  He wasn't part of                                                               
the negotiations and maybe that's the best the State could do.  In                                                              
his view, it is a very difficult thing for a government entity to                                                               
do.                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Number 300                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. BONESS said it seems to him that the State's approach to the                                                                
antitrust issues is that the law is a very powerful tool and he                                                                 
heard a very narrow definition of the antitrust problem without                                                                 
regard to the large number of intangibles.  Then the narrow                                                                     
conclusion of bidding as solving the problems with the econometric                                                              
model.  He thought the Committee should contrast that with                                                                      
Commissioner Shively's December 13th letter which looks at the                                                                  
State's rights under statutes approving assignments of lease.                                                                   
Instead of narrowly defining the rights, it stretches them in order                                                             
to tell companies that have legitimate contract preference rights,                                                              
if they try to exercise those rights, because it could conflict                                                                 
with the Charter, the Commissioner would take a very expansive view                                                             
of those rights to protect the broad State interest.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
The contrast between that approach with respect to the exercise of                                                              
preference rights and the narrow definition of our rights under                                                                 
antitrust laws is unfortunate.  The greater state's interest lies                                                               
in the ability to exercise the rights we have under the antitrust                                                               
laws to protect the full range of interest.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Number 479                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE PORTER said he heard them saying the highest portion                                                             
of the $140 million savings was going to come out of the single                                                                 
operatorship of the Slope and that there had been great difficulty                                                              
in having that occur without this degree of ownership switch.  He                                                               
asked Mr. MacLeod if he could speculate why the savings was not                                                                 
able to be done prior to or without this much of a merger.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
DR. SCHEFFMAN said the State should look at that question and see                                                               
whether their regulatory powers could bring about those savings                                                                 
that the companies themselves are unwilling to do.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR. MACLEOD answered that someone at the top of those companies was                                                             
unwilling to take the action that they needed to take to save the                                                               
money.  It's an economic decision.  He said they really don't see                                                               
a reason, but they also don't see why a merger would suddenly would                                                             
make possible the $140 million savings.  This is the question that                                                              
has to be answered in order to justify the merger.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN HALFORD said he didn't want to break off the discussion,                                                               
but airplanes were flying now.  He adjourned the meeting at 6:40                                                                
p.m.                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                

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